Manky's XS650 Yamaha

[Archie]

ye you can run with or without

Just not lithium ion ones I think

[Manky Monkey]

That's what the Enterprise ran on isn't it?

[Archie]

Pew pew photon torpedoes fired

The gel type / racing batteries tend to be lithium. Not sure why it would have an issue with them, maybe charges em too much

[Manky Monkey]

 
So, Tom's got this system:

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=xs650&PN=STK-467D_-_Stator_Kit%2ehtml#SID=770?aSTK_2d467D

I think that fires from the crank, rather than the top end as my electronic ignition does. So I'd have to remove the Boyer Bransden set-up I've got. Mr Dslam's altered the timing slightly to get the best from it, so would fitting this screw up my nicely running motor?
I really don't understand electrics -if I go this route I may be looking for a, (paid), volunteer to splice it into my existing wiring! (my Post Office Christmas bonus & this week's P.O employee shares dividend will cover most of the cost of the kit).

[stinkey]

Bloody electrics again? If I could find a course at some college for bikes I'd sign up right away..as for working here on my bike ..yes please..it's only down the road from here too ?

[tom_prs]

Yep thats the one, I thought it was pretty reasonably priced compared to other PMA kits out there.

Wiring should be fairly straight forward; the kit comes pre-wired, includes the reg/rec and even to the spark leads, so once you've removed your existing Boyer kit/coils it should just be a case of bolting the kit on and linking up the 12v from the PMA to the fuse/battery. More than happy to lend a hand if needed!

The drawback of this system is that adjusting the timing isn't as easy. As you mentioned it fires from the crank, which means pulling the rotor to make adjustments - not difficult, just not as easy as points/boyer kits.

[morrag]

Yes it will charge your battery. Indeed, basically, the only difference is in excitation, although the PMA set up will require a Reg./rectifier unit. Personally, and as you have the brushes, why not install them and check your output, as "Mr OEM" did not install a system that doesn't work! and with your very reasonable electrical loading requirement, you will be fine with what you have, assuming your alternator is not faulty, of course, gwan,try it, you know it makes sense, and save yourself some dosh!! .... Morrag

[Tony oily bike]

Me thinks Morrag has a point – for the sake of fitting the brushes, a ‘responsible adult’ with a multimeter will let you know if the current (pun!!) alternator is working.
If it is, then the rectifier / regulator function can be checked to. It may be that the system is hunky dory (albeit 40 years old and a considered weak spot of the XS......), in which case you'll have a smooth-running, electrically-charging, somewhat-loud bike  - just leaves the pipes (old system for MoT?) the torque arm, and indicator/tail lamps that don’t blow for the MoT............ then have an MoT'd bike which can have the "desirable" bits added/modded to suit.  That's assuming I'm right in thinking the clutch doesn't really matter for the Mot? 

The PMA route:
Tom’s system is a combined ignition/PMA, so has a timing trigger built in.
Junkyard Frog is currently running a nice (and already set up by Dslam) cam-timed Boyer electronic system, so doesn’t really need a PMA system with the trigger built in.
I’m assuming a combined ignition/PMA could be fitted, ignoring it’s timing trigger bits n bobs, and keeping Andy’ easy-to-adjust Boyer electronic system??

Although it may not matter, the combined system is advertised as having a single phase 65W alternator. Units from Heiden/Mikes XS have a 180W or 200W (prob 3 phase?) units.

Heiden’s system (without the timing trigger) is advertised at 270Euro (appx £236), and has a 180W alternator.
http://www.xs650.biz/p/28/2071/mo74-cg%7C23=3/%23ht-0002-12-v-powerdynamo-alternator-system-

The system Tom has http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=xs650&PN=STK-467D_-_Stator_Kit%2ehtml#SID=770?aSTK_2d467D
Shows the price to be £270 including VAT

Food for thought maybe....................

[morrag]

Well, on the question of age/reliability, my '65 Triumph runs its original single phase alternator, and whilst it is a PMA system, is never the less even older, and works fine. The separately excited system used on your Yamaha is well tried and tested method used on many, many, car alternators over the years, and whilst if starting from scratch it would make sense to use a PMA set up , why change that which may not be broken. The 65w alternator is more commonly intended for 'Comp.' type bikes with direct fired ignition via a capacitor, and not reliant on a charged battery, whereas the 200w system will certainly be 3 phase, charging a battery via a combined Rectifier/Reg. unit of a type very common to  so many Japanese machines, and is more suitable where the electrical loads of modern road bikes are experienced, Morrag

[Manky Monkey]

O.K, O.K! I'm not rushing out & buying anything -yet, just exploring the possibilities. Yes, I'll fit the brushes first, but don't own a meter & wouldn't know how to use it anyway. I'll take the battery out & charge it, (not a 5 minute job, which is why I need to modify it's box), & have the Pop battery I could presumably use to start it for testing. How would you test the rectum frier?

[Manky Monkey]

Mr BayChimp dropped by the garage today to give me the much needed kick up the bum to start work on the bike again. Thanks Bob.
He'd been checking out how-to videos on YouTube & we had a Haynes manual. So we took the righthand casing off & had a look at the clutch.
So the lever was very stiff & moved the plates this far -about the thickness of the tabs around the edge of the cork faced friction plates.

[Manky Monkey]

We counted the plates -6 friction plates & 5 plain steel plates. That's right I think, (some models had more).
At the back of the clutch basket was another steel plate though. Now I knew this was there because I'd tried to remove it when I took the clutch out to replace the gearshift mechanism behind it, but couldn't shift it from the back of the drum, so left it alone. It was definitely another plain steel plate, with the teeth around the inside edge that locate on the inner drum. All Bob's videos he'd watched, plus the manual said there should be a cork friction plate at the back & front of the stack. No mention of a steel plate at the back.
It was wedged pretty damned firmly in the back of the basket & after some initial prodding we decided to use good ol' fashioned brute force to get it out. You can see a few rust spots on the locating teeth, which makes me wonder if it's an extra ring from an older set. If I have to, I can buy these new.
That'll be buggered now then.

[Manky Monkey]

Behind that plate was a plain steel ring. No locating teeth -looks like a spacer. The inner drum has a recess machined around the back edge, which is what the toothed ring was wedged into. The plain one doesn't seem to locate into that, just sits over it. Does that make sense so far?

[Manky Monkey]

All the plates that came out. These are the new cork faced friction plates I fitted when I took the clutch assembly off to replace the gearshift mechanism. I was going to soak them in oil, but they looked pretty well oiled so I won't bother.

[Manky Monkey]

The problem had been that the clutch wouldn't disengage, presumably because the plates weren't separating enough.
We seemed to have one plate too many, that wasn't mentioned anywhere in our guides. Would taking it out fix the problem?
I bought new clutch springs the other day, wondering if someone had fitted heavy duty race type ones. All the Ebay ads I read were for heavy duty ones, except one, so I bought those. When we took the clutch apart we tried removing 3 springs first, as Tony suggested, to see if the lever was easier to operate. It was.
As you can see, the new springs are shorter than the old blue ones. So which are correct? Couldn't really tell just by squeezing them, whether the new ones were any softer or not. One of the YouTube videos said these should be torqued up to 6 psi. I'll check that in the manual cos it doesn't sound right to me. For now we've just wound the spring bolts in finger tight.