Manky's XS650 Yamaha

[Manky Monkey]

So after an hour or so of stripping & rebuilding, we now have the opposite problem.
The clutch lever feels more or less the same, (still too stiff), but the clutch is engaged all the time. Putting the engine in gear & rocking the bike back & forth with the clutch lever out, it's free wheeling. We did have a point, before we temporarily refitted the casing, when it seemed to be right & you could hear the compression of the engine turning over when it was rocked in gear, but that only lasted a few seconds before it seemed to free off & run free, so was presumably the oily friction plates unsticking themselves.
We haven't altered the pushrod adjustment, or either end of the cable & there's no freeplay at the lever, so it may now be just a matter of adjustment until it engages drive as the lever's let out. As I said, the springs aren't torqued down, but are done up finger tight with a screwdriver, so pulling them up tighter may make a difference. Anyone know the correct torque setting for those?
The clutch was dragging. We've removed one plain steel plate & now it's slipping.

Is that progress? Not sure, but having a second opinion helped & we're pretty sure everything's correct. I bought the bike from a car trader, who'd taken it in part exchange for a car. He didn't know anything about bikes so said his son had put it together enough to sell it. It came with a box of assorted parts, some of which weren't even XS. I assumed he'd just bolted the bike together & not worked on the engine cos it seems to be in pretty good shape internally, but it's entirely possible he put the clutch in & added an extra plate from the spare parts. Any opinions? Should that plain plate have been there, (in which case I'll buy another), or not? Does it sound like just adjustment now to fix it, including torqueing up the springs, or is there anything else we need to try?

[Manky Monkey]

Some people have families & Bob had to head home for Sunday lunch, so I pottered on for a while longer until my rechargeable worklamp ran out of charge.
I removed the front LED indicators, which involved cutting the righthand one off cos some idiot had decided it'd be cool to run the brake hose through the hole in the middle of it & I wasn't going to disconnect it & have to rebleed the brake. Temporarily bolted the new ones on. The bodies are polished aluminium but they'll be powder coated black so they're slightly less conspicuous. I know they're quite big, but I'm quite happy with them. I'd rather be seen, particularly in the dark, than dead.

[Manky Monkey]

From the riding position the rear facing lenses I fitted in them will let me know if I forget to turn them off as the switch isn't self cancelling, (I've got a feeling it might have to be for the MSVA test when I do it). Fortunately they don't block my view of the speedo either.

[Manky Monkey]

Before Bob left he gave me a hand to lean the bike over as far as we could so I could remove the battery box from underneath. There isn't enough room between the top of the battery & the underside of the electrics box to take it out from the top & not enough clearance between the bottom of the frame & the ground to drop the whole box out from underneath, (unless you have a mate to hand to lay the bike over far enough). Very poor design on somebody's part.
So I hacksawed the front face off the box & will fit a bolt-on front panel, so the battery can be taken out from the side of the bike.
Now I need to find an offcut of 2mm steel plate & a folder to fold the edges.
Thanks for your help today Bob 

[spanners]

just a thought    did you check the  nut in the centre of the clutch basket  they have been known to come loose and cause clutch problems
just had the workshop manual out and it dosn,t give any  torque settings for the clutch springs  screws  but the centre  clutch basket nut  setting is 54 to 58 ft,lbs

[Manky Monkey]

Yup, I torqued it up last time around & put a new locking tab washer on it.

[morrag]

From the info. I have, the Yamaha XS 650 model range, years '77 to '83 used 6 friction and 5 plain clutch plates in what is described for the "later" models in this range, wots "later" mean I ask? anyway using a clutch spring length, free, of 34.6mm. Earlier models in this year range used 7&6 respectively, it appears. You should have pushrod, ball, second pushrod, another ball, & mushroom. Start and finish with a friction plate, and that's it. Some early XS1 & XS2 versions use plain cushion rings as well, but don't seem applicable to your XS 650. Hope this may be of some assistance Mr. M....   Morrag

[spanners]

From the info. I have, the Yamaha XS 650 model range, years '77 to '83 used 6 friction and 5 plain clutch plates in what is described for the "later" models in this range, wots "later" mean I ask? anyway using a clutch spring length, free, of 34.6mm. Earlier models in this year range used 7&6 respectively, it appears. You should have pushrod, ball, second pushrod, another ball, & mushroom. Start and finish with a friction plate, and that's it. Some early XS1 & XS2 versions use plain cushion rings as well, but don't seem applicable to your XS 650. Hope this may be of some assistance Mr. M....   Morrag

just checked my book and the ,,,later,,, models came in 1977  through to 1983

[fifer]

Have you seen the following video ?
Pay particular interest to the section from 8 min 20 sec to 10 min 25 sec where he says the torque is 6 psi ?
Of course he meant ft/lb  but then later on at 13 min to 14 min where he corrects himsel to ft/lb but cannot make up his mind whether it is 6 or 7 ft/lb .
At 21 min he is going to demonstrate adjusting the clutch .
Personally I use a box spanner to nip the lock nut up rather than using an ordinary spanner as he does .
At 29 min he says that the engine cover allen head bolts are also torqued to 7 ft/lb .
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Zi82Xheho
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[Manky Monkey]

So I've got the correct number of plates for the year of manufacture then. The pushrod's a one piece aftermarket one, but exactly the same combined length as the earlier 2 piece ones.
Yeah, we watched that video on my phone in the garage this morning Tony, (ain't technology wonderful). Not really telling us anything we haven't already done though.
Cushion rings -that's the plain ring we found at the back of the clutch basket?

[Tony oily bike]

Some diagrams/parts info............. with luck they'll help more than confuse.

At least clutch varients can be viewed back to back to do a comparrison, and hopefully confirm what your bike has



http://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-xs650_model16839/

[Baychimp]

Andy after having another look at some exploded diagrams,of which there seems to be many. Not surprising as the model crosses so many years.Its difficult to know which you have.And the manual is not very helpful
It looks like the 1980 model should have two plain plates and one toothed plate and what looks like a large circlip that goes on first at the back of the basket,then the six friction plates and steel ones.See the diagram that Tony posted for the 1980 model. We will have to have a play another day and see if we can sort it. I found it interesting as I have never looked inside one of those before.

[fifer]

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[

b]{ 1 }[/b] The clutch lever feels more or less the same, (still too stiff), but the clutch is engaged all the time.

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You really need to disconnect the cable to be able to pull the inner to find if it is sticking in the outer cable .
Also check whether the outer cable is nipping the inner by a tortuous route ?

{ 2 } We haven't altered the pushrod adjustment, or either end of the cable & there's no freeplay at the lever, so it may now be just a matter of adjustment until it engages drive as the lever's let out.

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When you removed a plate you shortened the distance so that the plate will now be pushing on the pushrod and taking up any slack .
If there was no slack previously then the clutch will slip .
You need to slacken off the cable entirely and slacken off the clutch adjuster at the clutch ..
Hold the lock nut and screw the adjuster in till it touches then back off a  tiny bit .
Nip the lock nut up making sure that the adjuster does not screw in at the same time .
Now you can adjust the cable 
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{ 3 } As I said, the springs aren't torqued down, but are done up finger tight with a screwdriver, so pulling them up tighter may make a difference. Anyone know the correct torque setting for those?

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According to that video link I posted it is 7 ft/lb as are the outer casing screws .
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{ 4 } The clutch was dragging. We've removed one plain steel plate & now it's slipping

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See answer { 2 } above
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{ 5 } Does it sound like just adjustment now to fix it, including torqueing up the springs, or is there anything else we need to try?

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Yes ; See answer { 2 } above
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{ 1

[Manky Monkey]

Mine's a 1980 XS650 SE, (the American market model).
So it looks like it should have the plate we mangled, plus another, plus a circlip the same sort of diameter as the clutch plates -none of which we have & it seems none of which are still available. Will the clutch still work without them? If some models had them & some didn't, I tempted to try torqueing the springs down & just playing with the adjustment. If we can get it working I'll leave it well alone after that.
The old springs that came out measure around 42mm open, so presumably the new ones, which are shorter, are about the right length.

[morrag]

Andy, your model will have the clutch centre shock absorber, which consists of a spring seat, conical spring, inner plain plate, which are not the same as plain clutch plates, it appears, and finally a retaining wire circlip. Dispensing with these bits  would I feel, create the sort of clearance probs. you appear to have, so therefore if possible you should aim to replace. Failing that rebuild it as per the earlier XS models, got to be worth a try!! ...Morrag