Manky Monkey Motors

For the latest installment..

Went to BB yesterday to see how Bruce is doing, The old engine is out and the replacement engine is in, he also has to do some changes to the rear, it seems the original design was "flawed",.....

Anyway, while there I had a look at the damaged engine and discussed TIG welding the crack, after Bruce showed me the REST of the DAMAGE we agreed it probably isnt worthwhile....

So, here is a pic of the damage which couldnt be seen while the engine was mounted!!

Does anyone have any view on what caused this?   ???

It looks like you dropped a big end or the the piston broken up. looking in the manual all that's under those cracks is the conrod. can you see into the block

"what caused this?"

-a sledgehammer?

Could fill it with metal compound putty

Wish it was that simple MM!

Was caused by (we think) over-rev'ing the engine,,,,,, due to the fact that the rear axle ratios on my trike were dramatically wrong meaning the engine screamed while going very slowly....

Probably best if I give you some background.....

I got her last year from the widow of the guy who built her, he was a left leg amputee, I am a right leg amputee, SO, I couldnt ride her.

She was brought back down south on a trailer and then went by trailer to the bike shop for the work to be done. When I got her i was told that all the trike work had been done and all that was needed was for the engine to be checked over and a left brake to be fitted (no right leg, remember??). I emailed a couple of local bike shops and got a reply from the one she ended up at.

The work on her was done as and when the workshop had time (this was the agreement when they took the job on and it was winter at the time so I thought it was fine).

she went to be checked by DVLA on a trailer and was only test ridden a couple of times locally to where she was being worked on by the mechanics and other workers as necessary, this included 2 aborted trips to the MOT station, both of which ended up with her not actually arriving, the first was due to a failed fuel pump, the second was because of the engine blowing. What happened with the engine blowing was that one of the employees rode her down for MOT, on the way he found all of a sudden that he couldnt engage 3rd gear and then the engine blew.

The first time I heard about there being ANY issue regarding the engine running at very high rev's was after I organised Bruce from BB Custom Trikes to go to where she was and check her over, I did this because I was starting to have a confidence issue with the owner of the bike shop. THIS WAS AFTER THE ENGINE HAD BLOWN. Bruce was the one who mentioned that the engine must have been rev'ing very high due to the rear axle having the wrong ratios, it was from a Suzuki SJ410. When he said this the reaction was "yeah we noticed that", the thing is though that I was NEVER told this by them until after Bruces visit! The owner of the bike shop was more than happy to see her go to Bruce for completion, his view was that they were "twitchy" about working on her because they know very little about trikes!!!

I cant say how she ran before they did any work on her because I have NEVER ridden her, the left foot brake was the last bit of work finished (and this was obviously needed by me to ride her).

So, what are my options? i really dont know gents. I could go after them but a part of me is thinking "sod it, life is too short so move on," but another part of me is thinking "***!! they have cost me thousands and they should pay!!"

I guess the reality is its down to IF I can prove that the damage was caused as a direct result of their negligence, and I dont know if anyone could ever prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt!

So, thats the whole sorry story, opinions please gents.

You could change the axle to a 413 I think this lowers the ratio but not by much..

Not really necessary now, my Trike is at BB Custom Trikes being finished and when I get her back she will have a proper axle for her engine and drive with the correct ratios..............

My issue is what to do about the bastards who killed my trike!!!   :-\

Very difficult I know, but in the field of "Home-Brewed" trikes, it would seem that 'Caveat Emptor' are the watch words!. The original builder is no longer around so that a non starter with regard to recompense. The motorcycle establishment you first put it into seem to have been given very much an open ended brief, after all they never seemed to imply they were trike builders! and I'm even a little dubious that the "over revving" you were indicating would have been sufficiently high, even with a relatively low ratio axle like the Suzuki, to "Blow" a sound engine, so......................maybe time to write it off to experience, with a salutary warning to others, if your unfamiliar with what your purchasing, then get hold of someone who is! you know it makes sense!not a deal of comfort here, I know, but.................. :'( :'(Morrag

I'm inclined to agree with Morrag.On the over revving issue,I dont know the ratio of the axle that is fitted,but there must've been some serious over revving to do that damage and/or the engine had dodgy internals to cause it.

Apparently the engine WAS good, although that could be taken with a pinch of salt I guess....

What you need to consider though is that the engine was run a number of times with no problem, in fact she ran really well, but not when in gear and rolling of course!

Personally I think this is a case of someone getting on her and revv'ing the guts out of her because they could, not because they should and its because of that I will be going to have a chat with the shop owner! :)

All different gearing does is to alter the speeds in each gear .
For example you might normally attain 30mph in 2nd gear at 5000 revs but with a drastic reduction might only achieve 10 mph at 5000 revs .
Anyone who has driven an old British bike will know that you could alter the gearing on the engine sprocket { choice of between 16 and 25 teeth } , gearbox sprocket and rear wheel sprocket .
That was for sidecar gearing which reduced the top speed or for high speed but slower acceleration .
The safe max revs were still the same .
With the  higher gearing pulling away in 1st was like pulling away in 2nd .
Problem caused by folk who have no mechanical ear or feel for an engine and used to rev limiters on modern bikes
.

Yup, thats about right....................

Yes,seconded!

May of dropped it down a gear or two at speed to break it maybe .. Ummm  :'(

You took you trike the a company that repairs bikes. they took the job on knowing what work had to be done was on a trike. but you  said. 
(The owner of the bike shop was more than happy to see her go to Bruce for completion, his view was that they were "twitchy" about working on her because they know very little about trikes!!!)
So why did they take it on in the first place. these bike have a rev band of 8000 rpm.

hi Terry
They took the work on because when I first spoke to them, on the basis of the info I had there only seemed to be some "bike" work to do, being a check of the engine (as she had been sitting for close to 3 years in a garage after the owner had died) and changing the rear brake from right to left leg ( I am a right leg amputee). Given that she was (so I had been told) so close to completion I took this info at face value. The crux of my issue is that as there were adaptations needed for me to ride her, the only people to ride her were the people from the bike shop and she was test ridden a number of times by them including 2 attempts to get her to MOT, the second attempt ending in the engine blowing. My view is that as they are (apparently) bike experts and have "experience" in Glodwings they should have damn well known that the engine was over-rev'ing but if they did they did NOT tell me, if they had I would have asked "why?" and done something to get it checked! The first time the over-rev'ing at low speed was mentioned was by Bruce from BB customs as per my post above, and this was after a visual check of her and THIS is the issue; THEY SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT TO ME BUT THEY DIDNT! So, they are either stupid OR incompetent OR just didnt care but either way I am NOT happy! The shop owner was happy for her to go to Bruce for completion when it became apparent that there was some "trike" work to do and they dont have the experience to do it. You should understand that my trike was with them for nearly 9 months and she was tested a number of times so its not as if there wasnt enough time for someone to think "this trike revs high at low speed"! Its pretty basic to my mind!

And yes Terry, you can see into the block!

Tricky that I'd say they are covered with liability insurance if you want to go the full hog!

What I want Steven is an admittance that they stuffed up and (at least) a contribution to the cost of the replacement engine AND cost of having the work to have the old one taken out and the replacement mounted, if I got that I would be prepared to call it quits. It really depends on the reaction I get from the owner of the bike shop, I have spoken with a solicitor who views that the case really centres around the fact that IF they know Goldwings as well as they profess (and I saw a couple there for work and/or servicing during the time my Trike was there) they should have known the engine and therefore even though its a trike, they should have realised something was wrong AND mentioned same to me; apparently it comes down to "due care". I dont actually want to go down the legal route though, life is too short so its really going to come down to the reaction from the owner when I speak to him which will be next week, I will let the forum know the outcome!   ;)

I know bugger all about motorbike engines but shouldnt you first determine what caused the holes in the block?
Did you brief the garage on the fact that the trike had been stood for at least 3 years without being looked at?
Did you yourself check on the level or state of the oil? Did you ask the garage to do so, or was it merely the modifications that were discussed?
Engines are designed to rev, whether or not there is a load attached, this will not have blown just because of high revving, it may have contributed but other factors will be involved and i dont mean the axle.
The garage informed you that they knew nothing about trikes, maybe they assumed that the engine was supposed to rev high when converted to a trike?

 

As I have already stated, I'm with Mr. T, and I really don't think you will get too far with this one, unless the garage owner is something of a philanthopist!! Morrag

or you and a few friends are built like brick s**thouses and have no moral compunction about doing physical harm  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hey, c'mon Cab I assume your joking, for if not that's a sad statement!! really, as I'm sure you are aware, violence of that type solves nothing...................... :'( :'( :'( :'(

Sorry Morrag, I thought the smiley faces might have given it away  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Although I can think of certain occasions where it would be impossible to stop me following a course of action such as this and they all involve my family and their welfare and I don`t think many would disagree with me on that. >:( >:( >:( >:(

My apologies Cab, I should have looked a little closer!, the reaction of an old pacifist, y'know flowers and a "splif" man, make peace not..........sure you get my drift ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;).....Morrag

Yes, thrash them with a bunch of flowers that'll do it... Fingers crossed they pollen sufferers ..

COUNT YOUR LOSSES...... REPAIRE REBUILD

If you aren't certain the engine was okay before you bought it everything else is guesswork anyway. Like you say, life's too short and you haven't got a good case. Don't use them again ;)