Manky's Pop.

[brock]

   by the time Grizz turned up this afternoon it was too wet, cold and dark to measure his axle, but parked next to the transit there didn't look to be much difference, I can put my spare Pop axle across the floor of the transit so I gues there is a bit more than 6" difference between them. Rear axles are narrowed all the time, a lot of early style dragsters use them, there's a fella in Birmingham that I can get a number for if you want a "race spec." job, front axles are also dropped with some frequency but you might want a bit of experience behind you before trying it, the HAMB have some good threads showing the jigs etc used. There is however, nothing stopping you building your own tube front axle and fitting all the Sherpa stuff to it, machine two king pin carriers the same size as the Sherpa axle ends and weld them in to a straight or dropped tube, probably a better option in the long run as you can place your batwings and spring hangers where they need to be rather than where dictated by the original, also give you the chance to set the camber and caster (KPI) to suit.

[BikerGran]

Isn't all that sort of stuff in the manual?

[tazet]

What manual?

[Manky Monkey]

Jeez, that's complicated Brock. Have I taken on more than I can handle?

[brock]

  No, you've made a blinding start, it's just that now you need to make intelligent informed desicions about how you go forward, that means actually reading and understanding all that stuff I send you rather than just glancing at it and hoping for the best  . None of it is really that difficult in isolation it just seems a bit daunting as a whole, it is , after all, a complete car you are building from the ground up, a stack of stuff to be built or sourced and nailed together in something like the right shape. You're not the first to do it ( or reach that first realisation that it's a little bigger than you first thought) and the information is out there. Once again, join the NSRA and make use of their experience. I guess you might know my opinion on the chassis and that is one of the fundamental choices you need to make early on, so do it, then take a week out thinking about it. Take photos in profile of the body, wheels , bed sides, motor etc, take them all from the same distance (use a tape measure) and get down level with the bits for a true profile, then cut them all up and assemble the bits on a clean sheet of paper, get comfortable with what you are actually aiming for and when it's right scale the critical dimensions, axle centres, firewall,bed length, ground clearance etc. Do the same front and rear and get a feel for axle and bed width, all of this will start to plot your chassis which after all is just a way of holding all the bits in the right order. Give me a ring or come over sometime, I'll be the one sat in the truck wondering if 18 months into it, I might have taken too much on.

[panthershaun]

Sorry Andy  I opened a can of worms. Its just that the rear of your pickup looks so right in the mock-up's
with the rear wheel sitting close to the pickup sides, move that out 3 or 4 inches and it may make the pickup bed look a little narrow. but until you mock it up its only a thought.
If you narrowed the Sherpa rear axle and ran the Pop front axle fitted with spitfire disc's on a suicide perch just behind the grill similar to this I think it would work as this guy has a V8 fitted and this is using a standard chassis.

[BikerGran]

What manual?

The MSVA Manual

Sorry, this is nothing to do with the Pop, it was about the trike!

I need to know what type of brakelines are allowed & whether there's an age limit on tyres, as I get different opinions from everyone I ask.

[Manky Monkey]

  Just thinking aloud at this stage Shaun & trying various options.
The Sherpa axles were intended for the '27 T hotrod body I had last year, which never got anywhere because getting it registered for road use looked nigh on impossible. I'm told getting a Pop pick-up through the commercial vehicle SVA is a much more realistic proposition. It'd be nice to use the Sherpa bits just because they're already there, but it's not the end of the World if we can't make 'em fit.
I had a quick measure up at Loony's workshop today. The Sherpa axles are much wider than I thought. Not sure where I'd got my measurements from or whether I'd just made 'em up, but the original Pop front beam measures 47" between the hub faces. The Sherpa's a massive 62", so 7" wider each side. As I'm not going to run the original wings I don't have to worry about fitting the wheels inside them, which means I can go a little wider, but not that much.  
The Pop rear axle's 47" as well, while the Sherpa's 58".
Narrowing the Sherpa rear axle shouldn't be beyond us if we can do it with a Reliant one. You're right, the wheels need to sit close to the pick-up sides, which means we need to lose roughly the width of the tyres from either side of the axle.
Loony & I mused whether the Pop front beam would be up to the job. I know they're regularly used in drag racing but drag cars don't do a lot of cornering or heavy braking do they. Think I'll ring Pop Browns or Pop Parts Plus & see what they recommend.
I can't use the VW camper panels to mock up the pick-up bed now cos Loony's gone & welded 'em to a camper.   Think I'll definitely go with a pair of those though. The ribbed camper van floor panel I liked turned out to be something like 120 quid, but Loony's parts catalogue shows a universal ribbed floor panel which would do the job for sensible money. Could use it for the cab floor too.    

[Manky Monkey]

Bobbi, the MSVA manual's a bit vague in all the places we need it to be specific- it says only that the examiner must check the brake lines for "unsuitable joint fittings". It doesn't say what they should or shouldn't be. There's also no mention of tyre age. A lot of the potential pitfalls I've heard of are just word of mouth. I need to speak to someone who can give me a definitive answer. ByzMax has put a couple of trikes through the test I believe, but I can't get hold of him.
I'll try Chris, the tester who posts on the 100% forum, during office hours on Monday.

[panthershaun]

Didn't mean to throw water on the fire mate, just a concern thats all Grizz thinks the Pop front end is man enough for what we want to do, that is good enough for me

[Manky Monkey]

Shaun & Brock -is this Kev Rooney, the NSRA guy who's on the consultation committee of the SVA group?
I took this pic at Hayling Island last year.

[panthershaun]

yup

[Manky Monkey]

Emailed him yet Shauny?
I called in at Valley Gas Speed Shop in Newbury, Berks this afternoon. I was dropping off some trike parts at the powder-coaters next door. Anyway, I wandered in to ask Jimmy's advice on axles. Nice guy. He happily spent the best part of an hour talking chassis, beams, engine mounts, axle ratios etc, with a complete novice, with no sale at the end of it. He reckons the Sherpa rear axle gearing will be fine. One of his customers is running a standard. original Pop front beam in conjunction with a big block Chevy motor with no problems at all. Then he gave me the number of a local guy who's selling a complete Pop front set up, including split wishbones, with disc brake conversion. A complete bolt-in unit. Only problem is he wants 300 quid for it. About twice what I'd want to pay, but then how much would I spend uprating my own bits?

[Manky Monkey]

I rang the chap with the disc braked Pop bits today. He lives about 15 miles from Basingstoke where I work. He's Jan Summerville, a drag racer of some repute, who's the guy with the big block Chevy engined car. The Pop set-up was in his race car -he's swapping it for a dropped tube axle, which is why it's for sale. Included in the price is a pair of "Centreline" style wheels & tyres, which I won't need, so I'm going to see him on Friday to take a look & haggle a price, (I'm cr*p at haggling  ).

[Manky Monkey]

I rang the DVLA this afternoon & spoke to the woman who sent me the "we want to inspect your vehicle" letter.
They're not happy that I'm "restoring" a vehicle which doesn't have a VIN number stamped on it's chassis & has lost it's body mounted VIN plate. I've got no way of proving to their satisfaction that the car I've got is actually the one the number plates came from. The Pop's now listed on their computer as a scrapped vehicle. Bugger.
So it's SVA time for the Pop. PantherShaun already knows Kev Rooney, who was on the consulting committee when the regs were drawn up & is a keen rodder himself. If anyone can guide me through the red tape he can. So I'm waiting for an introduction from Shaun & Kev's phone number.
I'm clinging to the hope that, as I've been told, commercial vehicle, (i.e pickup), SVA is far easier to pass than the car equivalent, due to the bus, coach, taxi & lorry companies lobbying far louder for exemptions than the custom & kit car boys did.
If the Pop's going to become a Q plated new vehicle then I may as well buy a 350 quid basic chassis package from Valley Gas Speed Shop & do the job properly. This is supposed to be a budget build & it's already creeping towards the total I wanted to spend, but with luck, at the end of it, I'll have a totally legit "new" car, which won't need MOTing for 3 years & will withstand any inspection of it's paperwork.