Manky's Pop.

[Manky Monkey]

We've got a spare Reliant rolling chassis, but reaching the steering box is a major operation. Don't want to chop up the body as it's in reasonable nick & we may be able to flog it to one of the Reliant owners club guys!

[BikerGran]

Can you try towing it to see if it works on the move?  I was just thinking that maybe it's cos you are used to power steering - I can't get used to the fact that I can turn the steering on the new car when at a standstill cos I sure couldn't do it in the Maestro!  It's only since having power steering I've realised what a struggle I had to do a 3 point turn every morning!

[Manky Monkey]

We could just roll it out of the workshop door -that'd be enough momentum to check it Bobbi.
Had another look at it today & it really won't turn the wheels at all when it's at a standstill. At the moment I've got an old 8mm bolt holding the drag link to the end of the steering box arm. It's in a 10mm hole. With the car sat on level ground, the steering turns fine until that slack is taken up, then it stops dead -in other words, when it's under load the steering box can't physically push the wheels round.
I've had older cars without power steering in the past but don't really remember what they steered like. Taz says she's driven an old Toyota Hi Lux pick up truck that was just like that -couldn't turn the wheels unless it was rolling. I can't believe that's right though -or acceptable to SVA & MOT guys.
If there's a problem it has to be either a fault with the Pop steering box, in which case I'll pull apart the spare one I have & try that, or it's just not man enough to handle the extra weight of the V8 engine & we need to find a box from a heavier car that may have better gearing.
 

[Mr_G]

Our works van is like that, its like a tank to try and move the stearing when its stopped, same as my old astra was.

[tony b]

hi andy,i help out at a paintball site now and again.they have an ex army stalwart six wheel amphibious truck,if you can find out if they have steering boxes ,ill see if i can make one suddenly dissapere and unexplainedly land on your door step,maybe,if they are fitted to this truck it will definately be up to the job as the thing must weigh at least 5-6 tons

[Manky Monkey]

Cool! Cheers Tony!
Hmm, maybe I'm just used to wussy power steering.
I've just spoken to Chris from Pop Browns, suppliers of custom parts for Ford Pops. We went right through my steering set-up as best we could, with me waving my arms around trying to describe the movement over the phone.
I thought we'd turned the steering box through 90 degrees when we fitted it, but apparently we've mounted it the same way up as standard. We've also attached the drag link that connects the box to the wheels, to the same point as a standard Pop. Chris said Pop steering boxes are over engineered anyway so should handle the weight of a Rover motor O.K. So no obvious faults there then. He asked how heavy the wheels themselves are & whether we can physically push them round when the steering's disconnected. I said we can but need to put a knee against the tyre & give it a good shove. He thought that sounded quite heavy. We've got the weight of the engine mounted quite a long way forward compared to most V8 engined Pops, but then we've pushed the axle further forward too, so shouldn't be a problem. We've got the castor angle right, the spring shackle angle right, the steering box mounted in the right place, the connecting drag link right etc. No real faults. The only comment he made was that 10mm rose joints on the drag link sounded too small & we ought to upgrade to 12mm.
He suggested unbolting the engine & jacking it off the chassis a little, then trying the steering. If it works fine with just the weight of the chassis & only locks up when the full engine weight's on it, it's likely to be a buggered steering box. I'll try & hook up the spare to see if it works before stripping it down to shorten the column.
Hope this all makes sense -probably only if you own a Pop. Tried to take some piccies but it just looks a confusing jumble of linking rods.  

[Manky Monkey]

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[Manky Monkey]

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[Manky Monkey]

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[poprodder]

why not try posting this problem in tech on nsra?
you might get a slagging or some good answers

[Manky Monkey]

  To be honest Chris, without wanting to "diss" the NSRA readership, every time I've posted questions on there I've been completely ignored, which is why I don't bother any more.
We'll keep plodding on. Since we've started this build, Loony & I have been waiting for a problem to crop up. Everything seems to have more or less fallen into place & we were overdue for a set-back. There's no grease in the steering box at the moment & the steering column's not attached to the dash yet. Not sure there's enough "meat" on the steering box pitman arm & the cross link mounting lug to change up to 12mm rose joints but if there is, I will. We'll keep working around the problem & see what happens.  

[brock]

   looks and sounds fine, to be honest I wouldn't expect you to be able to get much movement without the whole system being finished, anchoring the column will make a huge difference as will greasing the box. 12mm Rose joints ! you'll be telling me the chassis is out of four by two next ! !
   If it is still too heavy for you, have a look at some of the electrically assisted modern stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CORSA-C-ELECTRIC-POWER-STEERING-COLUMN-KIT-CAR-ETC_W0QQitemZ230332232860QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item230332232860&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

    for instance.

[tbone]

Brocks post sounds convincing to me. Is the steering shaft being held in position by your feet! ?. How many monkies does it take, pulling on the wheel to get any hint of movement? What size is the steering wheel?

[Manky Monkey]

  That power column looks tempting. If there's a design flaw in our set-up somewhere though, won't forcing it with a power assisted thingy just risk breaking something? Would that require half the wiring loom from the donor car to operate it or could basic Monkey wiring do the job? No idea of the wheel diameter -14 inch maybe?
And yes, the column's currently supported by Loony's feet -he's starting to get cramp so I'd better get it properly fitted soon.

[tbone]

The switchgear at the top of that column would presumably be disgarded? in which case the only wiring involved would be to the motor, with the ignition in the on position.