EU - in or out. Looking for useful facts and figures

[JayJay]

Now I know we don't do politics as such but I would really like to find info, without the political spin, regarding staying in or leaving the EU. Not easy but there must be facts and figures somewhere. The only place I have found so far is 'The Euro Probe' which is interesting but does have an obvious slant. Has anyone else been trying to decide and managed to locate some useful material. If you have, can you point me to it. PM me if you prefer.
Cheers, JJ 

[morrag]

As I see it, there is no definitive answer to, In or Out, as nobody really knows what the long term effects will be, either way, and the projected profit & Loss columns also appear beyond the comprehension of mere mortals, including politicians. However, if one wishes to draw the conclusions from a purely racist/people biased stance, well.....that for ones own conscience I suppose ???Morrag..ps please note my opening comment. "As I see it!!"

[the coppersmith]

I have always been pro Europe, but now I'm not so sure, This big brother attitude doesn't sit good with me. Some one else said the other evening, imagine if Trump, Putin and Boris get in power, which maddo will push the button first?

[digger06]

I'm happy to vote out, europes affected my life way too much, 2 redundancys cos of eu meddling, and I don't like the way all these unelected higher powers are growing,
I don't like the fact we are gonna let (buy in )turkey in either, as that wont stop any migrant crisis, imo..and I honestly thing Europe could be on the way out, (Germanys making more enemys within Europe than anyone, trying to order them about.)
I think Britain would be wealthier without, trade deals with Europe arnt that good nor big, I know a few firms I deal with look out of Europe, and are very very successful, alternative markets ARE there,
all I can say is watch other news channels outside of Britain, ours are very biased compared,,,,,the facts of out? a lot of unknowns, but
i just cant see how it would be any worse,,,,,staying in? the facts are blurred by camerons lot, and some not even allowed to be published, makes you wonder why,,,,
most of  the politicians who want to stay wont have a secured gravy train job, and may just have to do something themselves for once,,,
its full of dirty tricks this in or out, and tbh, i think we deserve the truth to vote, but we arnt gonna get it, shame on the government for allowing this, and indeed taking part in the lies and spin, ...invoking fear seems to be their main way of getting us to stay in, as above, big brother, and he,s getting bigger

but that's my opinion of course..

[Olds]

I'm not a politically inclined person, but I do remember being peeved at being too young to vote in the original EEC referendum, which would and did affect my future.
The EEC now the EU has changed so much, from something that was supposed to allow free trade across a few member nations, to the all encompassing behemoth  that it is now, it's high time that we had a say.
 Which way would be best long term, I have no idea, so apart reading as much as I can, on the day it might still just come down to gut feeling.

[digger06]

I think, this time, everyone should be made to vote,
voting is often not true due to the lethargy of voters

[JayJay]

Cheers for that.

I found some interesting Q&As on the BBC website. Maybe I'm just being thick but some bits I didn't understand.

Q)
Who will be able to vote?
A)
British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals living abroad who have been on the electoral register in the UK in the past 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

I don't understand why Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK have a vote when they are not British Citizens. Also I don't understand the last bit. Does it mean Ireland, Malta and Cyprus get to vote?

Q)
How long will it take for Britain to leave the EU?
A)
The minimum period after a vote to leave would be two years. During that time Britain would continue to abide by EU treaties and laws, but not take part in any decision-making, as it negotiated a withdrawal agreement and the terms of its relationship with the now 27 nation bloc. In practice it may take longer than two years, depending on how the negotiations go.

That's a long time. So we still have to pay in and follow rules but no longer get to make decisions? You couldn't make this up!  So if other Countries join as proposed they would still have access to our money and our facilities. One of the reasons many are voting Out. That will be a shock!

[morrag]

The term "on the electoral register" is the key to this question, ie They either are or have been, registered electors of the UK during that period, and this has been true for many years, and includes General Elections. As regards the second item, Any arrangement as complex as the membership of this "Club" must be, will take some time to unravel, and make new deals outside the community, so 2 years would not seem excessive, but even if we leave, we shall still have to conform with all relevant rules and regs. of the Market, if we wish to trade with Europe after any exit. Again, that's my interpretation of these two points...,. Morrag

[Baychimp]

Just a personal view,make of it what you will. I am a noted Eurosceptic, and in the Common market vote of 1975 I voted NO. As a political activist at the time I realized that this would not just be a common trading partnership,but the start of a federal state of Europe. I can still see the smug grin on Ted Heaths face after the vote,as he and others knew where this was headed. This was hardly a glorious victory less than 500,000 people out of a population 57 million voted. Apathy at its greatest. All that aside in this Referendum I will still be voting NO. Not because of the migration or other media spin, I just don't trust an organisation that has never manage to get a firm of accountants to balance the books and sign them off.The whole system is corrupt. A gravy train of Euro MP's that have no teeth, All policys are made by the committee commisoners (how long a Banana should be and what shape) then sent out to the MP's. Who are allowed to tinker around the edges a little, but can not change any of the core policy. But still get pay and expenses. All these people have a vested interest in us staying in.I think that coming out will not hurt us to much,we import far more than export to Europe,these people will not stop trading with the UK,they will probably be more than willing to make trade agreements with us. As for standing alone and not being a player in the EEC, The days of Empire are over we are not really a world power any more, Germany call most of shots Merkel ( Hitler with lipstick) is the big cheese,they couldn't get us through the front door, but they managed to sneak round the back. The 13 billion we give them each year could be better spent elsewhere.As for losing jobs if we come out nobody has been able to tell me where these jobs have been created. But I can tell you where some of ours have gone. Just one case as an illustration, well known Razor maker Gillette closed two factorys one up north one in Isleworth Middlesex.Both profitable 400 million a year net. Get a 10 million Euro grant and build a new factory in Poland move production there, with lower overheads and wages increase profit by 7 times. Great for the Poles more power to them. But it left a couple thousand or so people without jobs with children to bring up mortgages to pay and food to put on the table.How much profit is enough.The EU takes our jobs and gives us it unemployed.   Oops sorry folks rant over. Its just that I dislike career politicians especially corrupt ones

[Mendalot]

There will be a great deal to sort out and unravel before we can leave, but that's all part and parcel and will be worked out. Some of our major utility companies are ultimately owned by the French, so its going to take time.  We are a prosperous country and as such, businesses across the EU are going to want to continue dealing with us, as we will with them, they wont cut of their noses so to speak. Great Britain geographically stands beside the EU, we should once again stand beside the EU politically and independently, not inside the EU being told what to do!! ..........   OOPs am I doing politics 
 

[Baychimp]

Don't worry about the major companies, they will carry on as usual being in or out isn't going to make a lot of difference. We have Japanese,Chinese  Indian companies. The global markets drive these.Look at Port Talbot steel works,being in the EU makes know difference to them.Tata steel own them and most of there production is Azerbaijan,low wages no health and safety if its to expensive to make in Wales make it somewhere else.Being in the EEC makes no difference to them. 

[melosman]

Don't normally do the political bit so here's my answer purely based on the news and papers. Definately out as a man in Brussels dictates our contributions, imigration is a big issue for many people but as a country we have no say in how many are allowed in due to us being in the EU. How much money per year do we put into the EU? Greece as an example. Many other countries thrive that aren't in the EU and lets be honest here since we joined where has the car industry gone? or the steel? or the mining? or the military? or the trains, gas, electric etc. The right to be British and believe in the British way of life has been removed, it's time we got it back.

[morrag]

Many interesting thoughts on the issue, however, some are more "spin" orientated than factual, perhaps , "..you know who you are!!", however, let us not forget the effect of Globalisation on the European Market, a huge factor in itself. Immigration, well only Ireland and us are countries that are still outside the Schengen area, and there fore still have control of their own borders. Personally, a multi tiered membership, where countries could join at various levels of involvement would seem sensible, so that the spectre of Federalism, that seems to frighten so many, would diminish! me, I'm still undecided but one observation is certainly true, when the time comes Use Your VOTE! or forever hold your peace! .Morrag

[Baychimp]

Lots of different opinions on this subject,some based on the very biased reports in newspaper and tv news programmes. but there are a lot of books and articles written by many eminent people,read both sides of the argument then decide.Some people will stick their heads in the sand,some will just sit on the fence until they overbalance one way or the other  ...."and you know who you are!!" A lot of the things that we lost where nothing to do with the EU,the loss of the car industry was really down too the unions, unreasonable demands,to many strikes. Mining was something different all together,Thatcher really had it in for the Miners and was going to make an example of them. It seemed at the time she was hell bent on closing the whole industry down. Do go out and vote,whether you are for or against, don't let it turn into farce like the last one.

[JayJay]

This was hardly a glorious victory less than 500,000 people out of a population 57 million voted.

I never knew that. I was 15 at the time and one of my O Levels was Commerce. I thought I knew it all and I thought the Common Market was a good idea but I remember my paternal Grandfather thought it was a terrible idea. I thought he was out of touch but bearing in mind what it has turned into, a behemoth he could never even have envisaged at that time, I think perhaps he was right. He must have realised even then that it would become something else and Britain was being misled.