Guzzi 1000 to Reliant Axle

[moorem]

Hi folks...
Well after some exciting and excellent advice concerning disk brakes, calliper carriers etc we have the bits ready for the reliant axle we have.

However on looking closely at the swinging arm housing for the Universal Joint on the Guzzi... there just aint enough room to allow the prop shaft to be angled over to the reliant diff which sits in the middle.

I've been reading on MMM about how to shorten one side of the axle to allow the diff to move over and align with the output of the Guzzi gearbox but is there another way?

The Guzzi UJ runs in a bearing housed in the swinging arm.... Can I use a different arrangement of UJ to allow me to angle over a prop shaft from the gearbox to the diff?

Anyone who has made a trike from a Guzzi who could advise me would be most welcome otherwise it looks like shortening one side of the axle to move the diff over a bit.

Any advice?

Martin

[BikerGran]

Mate of mine had his Cali triked with an angled prop shaft, and he had all sorts of trouble with it - in the end he had the axle shortened.

[Manky Monkey]

Do you have the room to add a second UJ in?

[Olds]

I think (but could be wrong) the main problem is that most bikes do not use a UJ (Hookes joint) but a CV joint (constant velocity) or double cardan joint at the output.
With a UJ the prop shaft speeds up and slows down as it revolves. The greater the angle the greater the variation in speed. UJ are used in pairs, one each end of the prop to counter this. If you have a  CV joint one end and a UJ at the other the prop will try to vary the speed of the axle with every rotation. The greater the angle the prop is at the faster something will break.
Best way is to narrow the axle one side and if possible fit a CV joint at the axle end of the prop instead of the normal UJ
Just my thoughts. Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm here to learn    

[moorem]

Thanks everyone for the input.
I'm here to learn like many others. I used to teach engineering and in another life I was a self employed turner and welder so I know that I can do the engineering bit if required but I just wanted to sound out others' wisdom first before getting heavy with the axle.

It is indeed a "double cardan joint" that runs within a cup that forms a major part of the swinging arm. If I wanted to take the joint out at about 15 to 20 degrees then I'd almost certainly have to re-engineer the right side of the swinging arm (looking from the rear of the bike frame) and I really don't want to do that.

So... no room for another joint but I half expected this to be the case so it looks like shortening the axle. No a big problem once its up on the bench... I just wanted to be sure before next weekend when I'd scheduled the work to begin. Besides if I align the diff up properly then I can use the original guzzi prop shaft and splined components (plus a little turning).

I'll look and wait a bit more to see if anyone else has any more suggestions.

Thanks everyone... when I get some pictures I'll post them of the work so that other members can learn from what I make.

Martin

[BikerGran]

My trike uses the bike prop shortened and mated to the Reliant prop - like so......   (BTW not my build so feel free to say what you like about it!)

[saex69]

I build my wife a trike using a Kawasaki  GT750 the best way forward and the advice of Chris Island from Desperate Dan's was to shorten one side and it work's very well and also looks more tidy.

[moorem]

My trike uses the bike prop shortened and mated to the Reliant prop - like so......   (BTW not my build so feel free to say what you like about it!)

Thanks for that image. It helps and explains a lot to me. I like the idea of marrying up the guzzi prop shaft to the reliant diff input. There is some nice engineering with the guzzi splines that I want to make full use of. It also shows me that the shortened axle is the way to go rather than trying to swing the prop shaft over,

Martin

[moorem]

I build my wife a trike using a Kawasaki  GT750 the best way forward and the advice of Chris Island from Desperate Dan's was to shorten one side and it work's very well and also looks more tidy.

Yes... thanks for that advice and the words from "Dans". The more I read the more I am convinced that shortening is the direction to go. I'm starting to look forward to getting to grips with the axle now. All I need to know is the off-set of the guzzi output shaft and then I'm good to go.

Martin

[moorem]

Does anyone know what the gearbox output off-set is for a Guzzi Cali 1000 (1996).
The distance of the output shaft to the right) from the centre line of the frame?
Because that's the amount I need to shorten the axle by.

Martin

[minimutly]

I don't know about the Guzzi, but the Kawasaki gt 750 frame isn't symmetrical, it's offset to allow room for the shaft and uj, so be careful when measuring up for centre lines. On the same drift, but more a question to the experienced on here, is this assymetricism unique to shaftees?
Huw

[moorem]

I don't know about the Guzzi, but the Kawasaki gt 750 frame isn't symmetrical, it's offset to allow room for the shaft and uj, so be careful when measuring up for centre lines. On the same drift, but more a question to the experienced on here, is this assymetricism unique to shaftees?
Huw

That's a good point. I might have to offer up the axle on a couple of stands to ascertain the correct position. From sight the frame seems symmetrical at the bosses where the swinging arm bearings are located. Easy enough to lift the axle up to check I suppose but it would have been nice is there were someone with this type of experience who could comment about the measurements for a Cali 1000.

Martin

[BikerGran]

My trike uses the bike prop shortened and mated to the Reliant prop - like so......   (BTW not my build so feel free to say what you like about it!)

Thanks for that image. It helps and explains a lot to me.

In case it helps, there's an album of pics on photobucket - not of the build taking place, they're ones that I took for someone.  Hope this link works cos I'm having some odd computer probs and can't pick up the easy link!

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/BikerGran_photos/library/GT550%20Trike%20conversion?sort=4&page=1

[moorem]

Thanks for the pictures BikerGran... everything and anything is a help. I've been convinced that the off-set shortened axle for a Guzzi trike is really the way to go.

AND THE GOOD NEWS.... its 85mm (3.34" in real numbers) that has to be removed from one end of the axle.

I found a PDF of the geometry of the swinging arm and the prop shaft is 85mm offset from the centre line of the bike.

So now I can start playing in my workshop. Yep - I have a lathe, welding gear and I know how to use em so I'm set to go next weekend.

[morrag]

Check out the pics, they may be of assistance, and are of another forum members Guzzi to Reliant axle build. Morrag