a couple of clutch questions (reliant)

[one arm bandit]

went for a ride this morning and on the way home my clutch was slipping, it would still pull but not as much as the revs were increasing, so when i got back i adjusted and slipping has stoped, so hope to be good for a few more miles, the questions i have as i suspect ile be ordering one soon.. theres 2 type of release bearing one needs the return spring, the tother does not, which i think is the carbon one, will either one fit my gearbox pre-engadge started type box..as im not sure untill i take it apart which i have. question 2 yes i have a leak on the gearbox, leaking from the small slot at the bottom of the bell housing, all the seals ive seen state rear gearbox oil seal, is there a front and rear??

[fifer]

You might be getting slip due to oil on the clutch plate { but it would have to be a lot of oil } .
More than likely you are over adjusting the clutch .
Both types preferably should have a spring .

On the earlier carbon thrust bearing clutch the spring went rearwards from the operating arm and hooked on to the rear gearbox mount .

Clutch adjustment on the carbon thrust bearing clutch

With the spring removed , adjust the rod / cable till there is approx 1/16 inch free play .
The carbon thrust bearing will just wear away if it is in constant contact with the clutch .
Refit the spring to the rear so that it holds the operating arm OFF the clutch .
{ Or have a circular spring at the foot pedal so that the pedal always returns back and pushes the adjusting rod rearwards }

Clutch adjustment on the roller thrust bearing clutch

With the spring removed You adjust the cable gently until no play is there .
Note it is easy to keep tightening after you reach the point where there is no slack and this will cause slip so take care and check frequently as you approach the optimum point .
The roller thrust bearing needs to be in constant contact with the clutch or you will get chatter and cause wear on the open fingers on the clutch diaphragm  .
Refit the spring to the front so that it holds the operating arm ON the clutch .
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Yep , gearbox seal front and rear .
There is also a big seal on the rear engine cover behind the flywheel
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CARBON THRUST type clutch to fit Rialto , Robin were fitted till
FEBRUARY 1990 up to ENGINE NUMBER ; up to OB / 85 / 87543 .

ROLLER type clutch to fit Rialto , Robin were fitted from
FEBRUARY 1990 from ENGINE NUMBER ; from OB / 85 / 87544      

That is not to say that someone has not previously changed the box / clutch

I cannot remember if you can see into the bell housing with a torch after starter motor removal to ascertain which type .
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[one arm bandit]

thanks fifer the engine should be a 96..but it has been changed from the donner at some point to 4m is that 84?? i assume the gearbox is oridginal 96??, i thought oil to start with, but after adjustment it hasnt slipped?? im sure mines the roller type thrust but not 100% ive had it out previous on rebuild but didnt take much notice just made sure it spun round and had little slop. either way im gonna need a clutch some time,and will remember carbon pull away roller push on ile leave it with not spring for tomorrows trip the get the gearbox out in the week and check it all over.. thanks fifer


my pressure plate has many finger apose to three big ones if that helps identify the thrust??

[fifer]

Originally posted by one arm bandit  ;
thanks fifer the engine should be a 96..but it has been changed from the donner at some point to 4m is that 84?? i assume the gearbox is oridginal 96??, i thought oil to start with, but after adjustment it hasnt slipped??

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If your 4M engine number starts with a 7 and has a " E " at the end of the number then it is a 1984 HTE { Yellow Top Engine } and would have originally been built in Dec 1984 fitted with the carbon clutch .
If your 4M engine number starts with a 9 and has a " B " at the beginning of the number then it is a 1994 engine and would have originally been built in Dec 1994 fitted with the roller clutch .
Could you do me a favour and PM the engine numbers and any other info you have about the original Reliant doner so that I can add it to my DATABASE at
https://sites.google.com/site/fifersrelianthintsandtips/engine-numbers
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Originally posted by one arm bandit  ;
im sure mines the roller type thrust but not 100% ive had it out previous on rebuild but didnt take much notice just made sure it spun round and had little slop. either way im gonna need a clutch some time,and will remember carbon pull away roller push on Wink ile leave it with not spring for tomorrows trip the get the gearbox out in the week and check it all over.. thanks fifer
my pressure plate has many finger apose to three big ones if that helps identify the thrust??

Therin lies the clue 
It has to be a roller as the carbon lining is fixed and cannot be rotated
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[one arm bandit]

thanks fifer, its a hte engine as it has the e at the end, but tis the roller bearing clutch so prob the oridginal pre engadged type gear box, there solves another question the clutch must be on its way out if it was slipping because if it was the thrust bearing it would stay engadged is that right??and on  a big ride out a last week she was fine and hasnt been adjusted since untill today. but even still she should be good for a few more miles fingers crossed.

[fifer]

The clutch slips if
{ 1 } There is oil on the plate
{ 2 } The plate is well worn
{ 3 } The diaphragm is weak
{ 4 } The clutch operating mechanism is wrongly adjusted and is pre forcing the thrust washer onto the diaphragm plate causing it to be disengaged slightly even before the clutch pedal is operated .
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The roller thrust , by its very nature of being a roller , normally never wears out .
It is the fingers on the diaphragm which get grooves worn in them and the finger lose their tension .

Some info on the roller clutch

3 Piece Clutch Kit

RELIANT ; CLUTCH KIT PART NUMBER ; 94991

LUK ; CLUTCH KIT PART NUMBER ; LUK 617074100

BORG & BECK ; CLUTCH KIT PART NUMBER ; HK9605 

QUINTON HAZEL ; CLUTCH KIT PART NUMBER ; QKT2087AF { equivalent to MHK 52087 }

VECO ; CLUTCH KIT PART NUMBER ; VCK4137


CLUTCH DISC ; DIAMETER ; 165 mm
CLUTCH DISC ; HUB PROFILE ; 7/8
CLUTCH DISC ; NUMBER OF TEETH /SPLINES; 10

CLUTCH DISC ; QUINTON HAZEL PART NUMBER ; C1919AF

.

CLUTCH COVER ; QUINTON HAZEL PART NUMBER ; Q10023

CLUTCH COVER ; BORG & BECK PART NUMBER ; HE2032

CLUTCH COVER ; FORD PART NUMBER ; FORD 77FB-7563C1A , 1568264

CLUTCH COVER ; LUK { I looked at the cover which was fitted to 1999 Mk3 Robin and it had the following stamped on it  }

7G 30 117 0012 10 and the words LUK Lamellen und Kupplunsbau

.

CLUTCH ROLLER THRUST BEARING ; RELIANT PART NUMBER ; 30801

CLUTCH ROLLER THRUST BEARING ; QUINTON HAZEL PART NUMBER ; CCT172


Hopefully the following is correct

Clutch Roller Thrust Bearing CCT172 was fitted to the following vehicles ;

Ford Escort Mk3 ,

Ford Escort Mk4 all models ,

Ford Escort Mk5 all except TDI , RS and 4 x 4 ,

Ford Fiesta Mk1 / Mk2 / Mk3 all except TD


ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT NUMBER

FORD 1568 264

FORD 1568 265

FORD 5006 972

FORD 6069 776

FORD 6082 045
FORD R81 AB 7563 AA

FORD R81 AB 7563 EA
.
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[one arm bandit]

i love all this info, saves get oil and cuts on my hand investigating, and i gauantee i know whats wrong, the diaphram.. i looked at the cluch plate when i rebuilt 600miles ago now but the clutch looked good ive never had one go on me but have seen a worn one and this wasnt worn, however there was sugnificant groove worn on the diaphram fingers so im betting this is getting week. my trip tomorrow consists of 60miles return if i take the long way 26miles return for the short way...which im not taking, if the clutch does go atleast it will make a day of it . plus my triker buddy pete is coming so ile take a tow rope and save my petrol if the worst happens, thanks again pete for all the info

[ROD]

Luke...just my 2p...have you fitted a spring to the rod mechanism so that it holds the thrust carbon/race off the pressure plate when clutch is not depressed? If it is oil on the pressure plate surely its got to travel quite a way across the bellhousing,so there must be a lot of oil? Like wise if its coming from the engine backplate area.The oil from the base of the b/housing could just be coincidental.As you may recall,it was a right pain trying to seal the leak on mine,even with a sleeve over the crankshaft oil seal!  gave up in the end,after spending a lot of money trying!It drips very slightly from the base of the bellhousing where it meets the eng back plate.

[one arm bandit]

thanks rod....weve identified i have the roller thrust bearing that needs to be held on the plate, the carbon is held off the plate   the leek is def gearbox oil i have to top it up every month or so, the engine oil hasnt moved. i can put up with the leek when out with pete its a game of who get the biggest pool of oil on the floor(he has a reliant trike....and it leeks ) i won last time in ironbridge so he may be out for revenge tomorrow ,, i recall your trouble with the crank leek it was a right pain in the arse. but i thought as i may need a diaphram, or a clutch kit then its all new i thought i may tackle the oil seal in the g/box aswell. it all boils down to how lazy i feel and what the weathers like when i start spannering