Urgent advice please about fuel injection system

[JayJay]

Hi all,
I have been without my car (Citroën C4 Picasso 2 litre Diesel) since the 15/06 and therefore without my scooter, preventing me going to any events. It has been with the Citroën dealer all this time.

The car was stopping and starting (kangerooing) very violently in lower gears. On occasion it would fade if you tried to pull away in a low gear, regardless of how hard you revved it.

Citroën at first told me it was my fuel pump disintegrating and causing swarf in my fuel filter. The warranty wanted a diesel specialist to look at it, which they did and they said it was okay. Peeved and mistrusting of Citroën, I said put it all back together and I would take the whole thing to another specialist but then Citroën couldn't get it going at all!    Even more peeved I took legal advice and they said Citroën must sort it. They then checked the pump with another specialist who also said it was fine. Last week Citroën decided my direct fuel injectors were the problem and they were sent off to the second specialist. Are you still with me?  

Today Citroën tells me the warranty company won't pay out because they want to know what is causing the swarf. In the end I phoned the specialist myself and he said it is nothing to do with swarf, it's an electrical fault!  

The warranty company seems focused on the swarf and want to know what's causing it. I think the swarf is a red herring and has probably always been there in the filter.

I am now facing a bill of £700 and that is with Citroën ignoring all the costs to this point and washing out the fuel system for free. They have quoted 2.5 hours labour for replacing the injector which the specialist thought was high.

So my questions are:

1.Should past services I have had at Citroën, have either seen the swarf in the fuel filter or even changed the filter?

2. Where can swarf come from if the pump is okay and if we discount dirty fuel which we all probably pick up over time?

3. Does 2.5 hours seem a lot for the replacement of the injector at nearly £100 per hour?

Cheers, JJ  

P.S.
I have never said the word swarf so much!  

[stinkey]

Is the car now fixed and running ok ?

[Olds]

I know very little about diesel injectors especially in Citroens but
1. Doubt if anyone would actually really look at the filters that much, unless they are looking for reasons for problems. They just change them at specified service intervals. You don't say how many miles the car has done.
2. Ignoring the pump and dirty fuel, I think any swarf found in the filter would have to have come from a dirty tank or fuel lines on initial assembly or if these have been replaced at some time. Can't think of anywhere else it could be.
3. Yep 2.5 hours does seem excessive. Unless Citroen have been daft enough to position the engine so you have to remove large bits of the car for access.

Most manufacturers will have a standard time listing for jobs like this. Ask another main dealer what they charge.
Sorry I can't be of any real help JJ and I hope you get mobile again soon.

[JayJay]

Thanks Olds.
No parts in that area have been replaced and I bought it from a Citroën dealer in Jan 2010. I think it's about 65,000 miles which would be about right for approx 10,000 a year. They have done all my car servicing so I will ask if they have ever replaced the filter. I forgot about that standard rule for labour. I will give another Citroën dealer a ring.

No Stinkey, they still have it. They have ordered the parts today. Let's just hope the warranty people pay out otherwise that is a big chunk of money to find. I have told them I must have it back for Wednesday.

Cheers, JJ  



 

[JayJay]

Just an update. Citroën had my car 6 weeks. I got it back the day before the Hayride and that was pushing them. They fitted a new fuel injector because the old one had an electrical fault and then they thoroughly road tested it. The car got me to Bisley where I parked up. It played up a bit when I left but thought it could have been my imagination and some pot holes!  Got home to Rick's. Two hours later it played up big time and wouldn't go. 15 mins it took me but I got home only for it to play up 30 mins the next day. I found driving it in manual helped. Not impressed.  Now they have to start all over again. Booked in for the 12/8. I was questioning the specialist bit anyway but now ... 

[toad]

I had similar with a Renault same engine as The citroen Turned out to be the pump surefire way to find out remove the filter and cut it open if it's got swarf in it it will be the pump the one we had showed plenty of fuel pressure when plugged into the diagnostics but would cut out missfire and would be a pain in the arse to start. we found the filter full of metal shavings. the only way you would get swarf in the filter is from the pump as the tank and fuel lines are plastic.

[minimutly]

This is not uncommon i'm told
Its normally new fuel lines, wash out the tank, filters, injectors sometimes, and pump obviously. Been known to write off many cars due to the cost.

[JayJay]

Thanks for the input both of you. Nice to see you online Toad.

In the end Citroën covered the cost of washing out the tank and lines. I payed for a new fuel filter. Two independent diesel fuel specialists said the fuel pump was fine and not the cause of the swarf. It will be interesting to find out what happens when it next goes in. Will there be swarf in the filter again? Until then I need to allow an extra 30 mins before going anywhere! 

[BikerGran]

A friend of mine had a similar kind of problem, in that her car kept on going in to the dealer to get a problem fixed and the problem kept recurring.  Then they started telling her there was nothing wrong, so she called them out to recover it in the middle of the night.

Didn't make much diffrence, it kept breaking down.  She asked to speak to the manager, he wasn't there but would phone her back.  Of course he didn't.  On my suggestion, she went online to find out the name of the Managing Director big boss man, and wrote him a letter telling him how dissaisfied she was and how she would never buy (whatever make it was) again, and addressed it to him with the envelope marked 'Personal'.

Her car got fixed.

[toad]

Gonna say it again plastic fuel lines and tank