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Author Topic: The bit at the back!  (Read 3688 times)
yukonphil
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« on: January 17, 2015, 01:38:09 PM »

Right peeps, the first of a loooooonnnnnggggg list of posts as I set off into trikerland  Roll Eyes.  I'm planning a classic MM style frame, I've used a pipe bender before but not for a while.  After you get the down tubes formed, what tips can any one offer to then get the rear kick up and kick out correct?  Is it done with just one bend and you have to know where around the circumference of the tube to make it so as it kicks up and out at the same time or kick it out with one bend then kick it up?  Or kick it out then cut, rotate, sleeve and re-weld the tube? Also, is there a set distance along the axle to place the axle brackets?  Does any one have the slightest idea what I'm on about? Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 01:57:23 PM by yukonphil » Logged
Olds
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2015, 02:56:32 PM »

 I made mine in one piece from the headstock back to the axle. Draw the frame out first to get an idea of the angles and shapes required. Most seem to go for simple two bends on the down/bottom tubes and a single bend to the spine. The rest of the tubes being straight ( except for rear bumper & seat/rack tubes) Painting the tubes in a light primer will allow you to draw on reference lines the length of the tube (helps orientate the tubes in the bender) and at the bend points to ensure the bends are at the same point on both tubes (also means you can put the tube back into the bender at the same point if required Allow extra length at both ends then cut when you are sure it's all OK. Axle brackets should be at least as far apart as the original spring mounts if you are planning on using the standard axle tubes. If using a reliant axle check the tubes are straight before making the frame.

Not quite a MM frame but inspired by  Smiley
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 03:02:45 PM by Olds » Logged

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yukonphil
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2015, 04:12:34 PM »

Thanks Olds,
I've noticed quite a few of the builds in red oxide primer and was wondering why. So it's a case of positioning the bender at the correct angle from vertical in order to get a bend that goes both up and out?  Hope it,s easier than I'm imagining because there won't be a second chance other than a new down/bottom tube.
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Manky Monkey
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2015, 05:05:18 PM »

"classic MM style" Harr, ha! Never thought anything I built would ever be described as the classic design!  Grin
When I first started toying with trikes there were no blue prints, no CAD designs, no thinking things through really. Just me in a shed with some tubing & a bender. Most of mine were built by the Try It & See method. Others here have since put a lot more thought into it all, (including the multi talented Mr Olds), & refined the whole thing. I do believe they can sometimes over-think & over-complicate things though. Mine were always intended as basic, simple -& fun machines. Fortunately I moved on to other vehicles before they all got too good & showed me up.  Smiley
My first couple of hardtail frames were bent up in single lengths, one each side, all the way from the headstock to the axle clamps, but on later ones I decided it was just as strong, & a damn sight easier, to do it in 2 sections, cut, sleeved & welded as you say. The first ones also had the coolant flowing through the bottom frame rails to rear mounted radiators, so doing them in uncut lengths meant less leaking welds. Making them in 2 halves means you can tweak them until they're just right. It's also very easy to forget one side needs to be a mirror image of the other -I've ended up with 2 left or 2 right sided sections several times! As long as your frame's properly triangulated & gusseted, with decent sleeves in the joints, it should be fine.
My sleeves were usually about 6 inches long, (no comments about short arms please), made from the same tubing as the frame, cut down their length & squeezed in a vice until they slotted inside the frame ends. Chamfer the ends of the frame tubes so they form a V when pushed together over the sleeve & leave a few mill gap between them, so you have a good weld area. I also drilled through the frame into the sleeve & "button welded" through the holes. Long sleeves will help to keep the tubes straight so you don't end up with a kink where the joint is, but I clamped the tubes into a length of angle iron to make sure they sat true as I welded them.
The ERW tubing we all use is just basic "steam pipe", available from plumbers merchants such as Plumb Centre. I used the 1" bore, medium or thick walled variety, (somewhere between 3.5 & 4.5mm thick). It comes in a red oxide finish, which would be the primered look you mentioned. It's a basic grade tube, but bends nicely in a Clarkes type hydraulic bender & welds nicely with a MIG. It's as strong as you need for a 40bhp Reliant trike frame but soft enough to have a little flex to soak up the vibrations without stressing or cracking.
If you're not sure of your welding abilities, then please, find a mate who can, & take your time -don't worry if you mess up, the tubing's reasonably cheap & you can always re-do things -but above all, enjoy it! Oh, & post photos -we like photos.  Wink
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 07:08:31 PM by Manky Monkey » Logged

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yukonphil
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2015, 06:38:02 PM »

Thanks Andy, I do have total faith in my welding abilities but I'm toying with the idea of tacking it really well and getting it professionally done just because I want to get the end result powder coated and if a pro does it I can leave the welds on show and if I do it I'll have to spend a week grinding them down.  The comment from Olds about making the axle clamps as wide as the original spring perches, I know what you mean but I'm thinking of going just inside as I've seen a few people use the old spring mounts as mudguard mounts, can't see there being any problem with maybe having them just touching, what's 3 or 4 inches between friends  Shocked.
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Manky Monkey
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2015, 07:23:28 PM »

Reliant axle tubes are notoriously thin & rivetted into an aluminium diff casing. A long, unsupported length of tube will flex & suffer a lot of stress every time you hit a pothole or accelerate/decelerate hard. Any vibration will also be transmitted through to the diff housing which could result in fractures around the collars that hold the tubes in place. So keep the axle clamps as wide as you can, within reason. Reliant used some truly nasty material for some components, (it's part of their charm), so avoid welding to the axle tubes as much as you can, but if you're a competent MIGer. purpose made brackets will always look nicer than just bolting parts to the nearest available fixture. Several people here have actually replaced the toobs with thicker or even polished stainless ones. Don't forget you'll need a tab of some sort to stop the axle trying to rotate under acceleration or sliding sideways in the clamps. I always added these to the clamps themselves, but if I built another I might try dropping a locating arm from the underside of the frame to one or more of the diff housing bolts, (bearing in mind they're only screwed into aluminium).
Looking forward to watching another build.  Smiley 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 09:27:08 PM by Manky Monkey » Logged

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Olds
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2015, 10:37:38 AM »

. I always added these to the clamps themselves, but if I built another I might try dropping a locating arm from the underside of the frame to one or more of the diff housing bolts, (bearing in mind they're only screwed into aluminium).
Looking forward to watching another build.  Smiley 
Agreed.
 After being a bit enthusiastic in trying to see if the prop and axle mods were strong enough, (lots of revs, drop the clutch) I managed to shear off my axle stops and rotated the axle 10 degrees, till it hit a cross tube. Welding the half clamps to the axle using 3mm  rods sorted that out but be careful on a standard axle, you may distort or burn through the tubes.
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Getting older but no wiser! Just using bigger hammers.
The answer to most problems, fire and lots of it.
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