Manky Monkey Motors

had a look through the forum but cant see if anyone has asked but what is the mot rules about LED tail lights and indicators? i now through a friend that say an indicator may have clear lens but must flash orange  so would that mean a tail light may have a clear lens but must show red , this is for a bike not a trike so no fog light required , the reg plate light just has to be clear so can be a LED and if it is ok to use LEDs as a trail light does it have to be a minimum size ?, when at shows you see bikes with led light but these are normally the american looking show bikes not home builds . thanks for any help i wouldnt want to make up custom lights to find out they are no use   

Hiya,
haven't got the MOT regs here, but can't find any mention of LEDs in the MSVA regs. As far as I can see there wouldn't be a problem though. Any thoughts people?

I think the regs for LEDs are prolly the same as for any other lights - ie, colour, brightness etc.  Don't think there are specific regs for LEDs - just my opinion mind.

There are so many vehicles using LEDs now they're obviously legal!

thanks for the reply , i was wanting to make my own light unit up for the rear end to keep it slim , i know i face the usual problems of were do you put the reg plate but if i can make lights to suit then it would maybe it would help , thanks again
 

On an ad for LED tail lights it says

try here http://www.chopperbuilder.co.uk/ go to the forums find the tech faq area Sooze has done loads on all manner of things, ive looked through it aint seen nothing on led's but lots on lighting

thats handy info BG if you can buy them off the shelf then they must be serviceable , VB already had a look and couldnt find anything about LEDs , i wonder though if there is a set size of light or a minimum set distance for the light to be visible , my old trial bike had an off the shelf unit that was about the size of a match box but the snag was the bulb melted the lens . my friend is a sales man at a local dealer i may just ask him to ask the mot tester , to see if he would pass it and i will let you now what he says , maybe handy info 

as long as the brake lights are brighter than the normal tail lights
and the tail lights must be of normal brightness then there are no specific rules

Manky posted a link to leds etc ...http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/

If you can find him, ByzMax is a bit of an authority on LEDs. He used to post here but not seen or heard from him in a while, but I think he still posts on ChopperBuilder. As far as the MSVA regs go, if it's not mentioned it can't be tested, so I guess that applies to LEDs too.

The one's on the Trike have got through 1 MOT so far.

i spoke to the tester at my mates work and he said he couldnt see any reason to fail lights made from LEDs as long as they show as bright as standard bulbs at least as it doesnt matter what kind of bulb is used,and also the lens cover can be clear  " as used on lexus motors " was the term he used  . but i never asked if the bullbs have tro be covered by a lens so i shall ask next time im in past .

you'd do a lot better going to WWW.BritChopper.co.uk and asking her directly

hell yeah but dont shoot the messenger will you :)

well i have done extensive research and asked as many MOT type tester people that i guess would know and they all say that there would be no problem with LEDs as ling as the stop side is brighter than the rear light side , i think you now what i mean , and all ok on the indicator front as well so looking good for me to manufacture really crap looking light units then .   

the led marker lights i sell are fine. but the msva man is not to keen on the amber ones being used as indicators as they are a little dim.

an example of an led tail light using multi leds rated at  0.2watt tail ,  1.1 watt brake.
those are e marked units so based on that there is a difference of 0.9 watt between the leds.
if making your own you can either use leds of different wattage or fit resistors which are used for tail light but by-passed for brake light :)

Leds are fine for all lights as long as they are effective. For the SVA it is at the discrection of the examiner but they do not have to be E marked or approved in any way.

Be aware that when you buy leds or pre made bulbs or fittings the LEDS will have a viewing angle and it can be as low as 10 degrees. Outside this area it is difficult to see the light being emitted. This will be the one of the failure points.

If any one needs more info on using them then feel free to contact me. Also check out back issues of Britchopper as I did an article about using them on vehicles.

Hope that  helps

thanks fo rthe info

Nice to see you back Byz.  ;)

Thanks Andy.

Been busy but popping in now and again. Everthings a bit up in the air at the moment but hope to get back to normal soon!

We're not far from you now -West Clandon, near Guildford. Drop in for a cuppa next time you in the area.

   just to derail this for a moment, I suffered a monumental failure over Christmas whilst trying to build a circuit board to house a driver and series of diodes all driven by a lambda senser, a mixture reading device for the race car, anyone know how to build one off boards and work with diodes (see, not entirely off topic) and better still want to have a look at the job for about the cost of a cup of tea and a slice of cake ?

Brock

May be able to help you! What where you trying to do?

I'm running all LED lights on the back of my Trike.  The only thing I was warned about was that there was some sort of rule about the fog light (although we never found the 'said rule' that says it has to be a filament lamp). Having said that, even my Fog lights are LED and I haven't had a problem getting through any MOT's.

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6559/dscf0077es8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Cheers

Two Showers

   ByzMax, I had blagged a set of drawings from the brilliant Duckman's site, bought all the components from Maplins and set out to build a little meter to show air fuel mixture as detected by a lambda sensor in the exhaust of the race car. I spent a day cutting a circuit board out of a multi purpose piece and just had to solder all the bits in the right place, it all went down hill from there really, but fast ! I have decided that electronics are something best left to those who can, which seems to rule me out. To be honest the diode set from Maplin would have been far too small to be read whilst driving and maybe even for the camera to clearly see but a bigger version would be great. Those of us who run petrol engines are constantly tweeking the jets to get a bit closer to the optimum but track time is limited and there are not many other places we can run at full throttle under load to check results.
   Link to the info :
                            http://www.dbbp.com/

   Having just re read the link, I see that guages are only $50 odd, I'm out there next week, I'll have a look and see if I can pick one up
 
                                            Steve

Well i'm gonna make one any how to test exhaust emissions on builds. so if you need one I will have tested it first!  ;D

let us know how it turns out, I still think that a bar type setup would be easier to read at a glance, if it can be pretty simple,small (other than the lights) and vibration proof, I may know of one or two others who may be interested

                                       Steve 

Will let you know how I get on.

It will be handy bit of kit on or off the track.

Got the bits needed apart from the o2 sensor but can test the circuit anyway. Will make it this week and see what happens!  ;D

 ;D ;D Built and tested the circuit and it all works fine. Just need to get an O2 sensor and test it on an engine  ;D ;D

I'll see what we have in stock at work, I know we make 'em.

Brock's on holiday at the moment, but I know he's gonna be very interested in this.

   just woke up, now I'm going to bed, I had these listed from when I was playing with it all, didn't get as far as contacting them but might be worth a try

http://www.cats-direct-shop.co.uk/lambda-sensors.php

   I would think that a heated one is worth the extra circuit as we don't run long enough to heat the sensor properly

                             Steve

Will get a heated one.

When do you need this for?


Iain

   Hi Mate, I know that I wrote a reply to this but it would have been a late night/early morning weekend thing and maybe the old motor skills were waning. Anyway what I said was, anytime would be good, we are almost certainly looking at our last season with the "old" car (having just got back from looking at the new motor components, I certainly hope so) and I would just like to prove that we are close with the carbureter tune we have before switching to injected meth.

                 

I have all LED's fitted to the back end of my trike and it's gone through the MOT no problem.  I'm using two stage LED's so the same light gives side and brake, the brake being brighter than the side.

(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9961/dscf0004uk4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Now with the new 1641 engine and a few more bits finished.
The LED's were imported from America and have two intensities.  All the lamps light but on sort of half brightness, then full brightness. I even have two of them wired up as fog lights and nothings been said about that either.

(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4026/dscf0012hp4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

  Iain, nice to meet you today and thanks again for the Magic Thing. I am just looking at ordering a sensor to set it all up, I was looking at the three wire unit shown on the attached link, I am assuming that this will use the exhaust pipe as its earth return, does this sound right to you ? If this is correct I will go for the four wire  (86400)with a dedicated unit earth as I hate chasing earth faults. Again , I really appreciate it ,thanks

                                    Steve

 http://www.cats-direct-shop.co.uk/lambda-sensors.php

From what i remember the governing factor for any rear light is that it has the relevent british standard (or equiv) on the lens. Not sure weather it's checked at MOT or if it's just a "construction & use" requirement.

Hi Tony, also as far as I know -without digging out the manual & checking -the MSVA trike regulations don't require E marks on lights.

The Earth would probably be ok through the exhaust but it would be better to run it back with other wires as I'm not sure if the heat of the exhaust may effect it's earthing performance.

Great to meet you both at the weekend and let me know how you get on!

Iain