Manky Monkey Motors

Actually, it's not a Pop, it's an Anglia -& so is Shaun's.
Thanks to Tazet, Ska Man & Loony for spending the day on the road with me today. We trundled down to Rochester in Kent & collected my new toy. Tazzie managed to borrow the biggest trailer in the World from her boss, along with a mate's V8 Discovery to tow it with. Neil, the Ebay selling chappie was very helpful & genuinely pleased it was going to someone who'll, (hopefully), actually do something with it.
Didn't take long to load it on the trailer -might've been even quicker if I'd helped! Well, someone had to record the event for prosperity  :D
It's now temporarily living in the trailer at Tazet's place until garage space becomes available & I've decided what to do with it.
Where the hell do I start?

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lots of pushing and shuvving m+m not in sight bet he loves it when a plan comes together  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

They're just making it look hard work. Looked easy to me from my vantage point on the other side of the road. It was rolling slightly downhill & literally took 2 minutes to run it straight up into the trailer. There was a winch but it wasn't needed. A Pop in a box.

Any idea what the gas rams on the trailer door are off of ?

you can get them any size or strenth i used to fit a lot of them on luggage doors and engine flaps on coaches

just rememberd gas struts used to come from  transervex at liverpool or st helens

Most horse box builders sell them. I will look around and let you know as I need one for the lorry awning as one has broken.

how far north do you go with the horses  do you do county shows

We go all over and not so much the county chows as thats the poncy stuff but we do the equivalent to ridden 3 day eventing but in a carriage. I will do a write up one day to explain what I do (will bore most people though).
Last year I drove out to Portugal but mainly we stay in England. This year the first show is Brighton and at some point in Aug we go to Cumbria then straight on to Scotland so will be gone for about 2 weeks.

The trailer in the pic takes all the carriages and feed and equipment needed.

andy willhave get the pop a garage then because he wont rod it that quick ;D

Its going to Lunatics place or his garage whichever is cleared first  ;D

Really good to meet you all, especially Tazet  :-*.... one bottle gone already :-\ ;) ;D :-*.
Good to bounce some ideas around ;D ;D ;D

Thats ok mate. The bottles were just collecting dust here, Good to meet you both too.

You gotta crack the whip now ;D trike and Pop done by the summer ;D ;D ;D

Well as the Pop is at mine I suppose I could make a start but where  ??? (we must stop calling it a Pop)  Will try and get that light off for you for Sunday.

Sorry "Anglia" :-[ :-[ :-[

Think Pop will stay. Habbit.  ;D and less letters to type  ::)

Couple of sites for ya Andy

http://www.thepopshop.org.uk/notindex.html

http://www.poppartsplus.co.uk

and another,
http://www.flatheadv8.freeserve.co.uk/martsframes.htm

On the index page, right hand side under the Heading "My scrapbook pictures"
you will see a heading Pop Project, check that out for a Pop build, step by step. Only no roof chop.

Err, "especially Tazet"?  >:(

Could I have a say in my Pop project too please.

Go for it as my ideas are rubbish.

You're only allowed a say when you've finished the trike!

 :P

Well she did come armed with Champers ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D but it was a real pleasure to finally meet all of you, makes the forum all the more friendly to be able to put a face to a name ;D :-* :-* :-*

At least we'll be able to recognise each other at the swapmeet on Sunday now!
Back to working on the trike today Bobbi, honest.

come on andy and tazet  give the anglia a good name  POP is what i used to call my grandad  he didnt look that nice   how about  ,,angie,,

I'm sure it'll get called lots of things once I start working on it!

    just to side track this for a moment, I am talking to a manufacturer about gas rams and getting estimates of around £150 for a bespoke pair , anyone have a feeling for prices on the really heavy duty commercial ones ?

Trike will come first. promise.
There's a V8 Rover engined Pop on Ebay at the moment. Viva front axle, narrowed Zephyr rear, fibreglass flip front etc.
A tad more than Shaun & I paid for ours though. 2 & a half grand at the moment. reserve not met.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ford-pop-sit-up-and-beg-hot-rod-no-swap-swap_W0QQitemZ120091345828QQihZ002QQcategoryZ29755QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

to flash by half :-X :-X needs less paint and no wings ;D ;D ;D

I agree with the less paint but I like the wings.

Owwww, I still can't decide if I want wings or not!
Reading the new issue of Ol Skool Rodz at the moment & must admit beat up fenderless rods do look pretty cool.

no no and no :-\ too many trad style Pops around, need more stripped down, bare bones cars about ;D ;D ;D

This is the ONLY way to go ;D ;D

Youve just proved my point ;) too many fendered Pops around already :-\ :-\ ;D ::)

Not sure where the pics came from, just keep surfing the net for Pop related articles.

Andy, had my Builder guru mate round today ;D had some cracking ideas for the Pop.
He has persuaded me not to get the Pop on the road for the summer but to do the job properly, as filling the roof will interfere with the roof chop etc. He is going to give me a hand doing the roof chop and pickup conversion.

Had some radical ideas for a salt lake style Pop, ladder bars and coil overs on the back, front axle pushed forward and fitted on a "suicide" perch making the whole car sit very low, radical roof chop, weld up the passenger door and run an open pipe from the engine down the passenger side about half way up the door.
2 tone paint and moonies on the wheels. What do you think?? ;D ;D

That sounds good to me, but you may have a problem getting it M.O.Td with the passenger door welded up, unless you take the passenger seat out.



                                                  Nige

Could always run the pipe lower, and split the door so you have to step over a sill to get in?? The bugger has me undecided now >:( >:( but still leaning towards a pickup ::) ::)

I want a pick up too, but keep getting told I'm not allowed to cut up my Pop cos it's too good. Mine's nicer than his!  ;D
I really like this pale fern green. Would make a nice change from black if suitably "aged".

you can have matching rod and trike ? janie postie and i have now got matching consuls. Yep i finally passed my driving test 1st time on thursday last week, so i brought another mk 11. Needs some work but a 2 owner car for £200 , i couldn t refuse. sorry manky but you had brought the anglia when i got emailed the pic s and a mate arranged getting it within days. Trouble is i fancy an open top hot rod for the summer, now where s that wining lotto ticket. ;D ;D ;D

Well done Dave.  ;D

thanks tazet, I drove a reliant for about 6 years to ferry my german sheppard[ziggy] about,[now passed away but not forgotton]. everyone said dont worry, but i was still a bag of nerve s on the day. Now i wished id done it years ago but if i had id be even more skint than i am now ! ;D

I hate exams too, but the main thing is you passed. So where did you go for your first drive afterwards  ;D

went to janie's mum and dad's[jacko] and had chocolate cake. Now if every exam/test was rewarded with choccy cake id have a pilot/hgv/helicopter licence by now. Instead ive got bike/car and tv licence, and no cake! but a figure that looks like ive hed all the cakes. ;D

 ;D ;D

I haven't got a TV licence. Mind you, I haven't got a TV either.
Well done Dave. About bloomin' time! Hurry up & post some pics of Betty Blue, the new addition to your Consul collection. Hope we'll get another write up for the site? Or some techy articles on any restoration work you do? I guess your contribution to the MMMotors calendar could feature both cars in one photo, with a portrait shot of Janie & you together.
Hmm, you want an open top rod? I just happen to have a '27 T bodyshell & chassis going spare. Step into my office & we'll discuss it.

NO TV MR MANKEY  :o :o :o mind you i suppose your always in the garage working on your trike ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

Nope, I haven't endured Eastenders, pop idiot, I'm a Z list nobody get me a career, or any other televisual delights for a couple of years now -& don't miss them at all. Not entirely sure where all my free time goes, but don't honestly think I'd have half an hour spare these days to switch on & tune out.
I watch films & box sets of the better TV series on my PC & listen to radio2, radio 7, rockabilly radio etc online too, so not entirely cut off from the outside world. Just a bit more selective about what I view.

And here the Pop begins.  ;D
Heavy duty Sherpa van arse end.

I know Im jumping the gun a bit here, but I like this colour!

It'll be that colour before it's finished. Shame that '36 is blocking the view.

 ;D
I like that -the green, not the rust. Got enough of that already. Pops came in a very pale fern green, which I really like. A matt version of that would be nice.

   there was a similar shade used by Morris which we are toying with using on the new race car ( but not for some time yet )

This colour.

Was talking to the paintshop guys the other day and they said they can do my 2 pack lacquer in satin and matt. Also they can do red oxide in all sorts of colours including mettallics! Not just red! ;) So you can get almost any paint in satin or matt finishes that will last for ages. Not like primers.

A suggestion from Brock.

Oh yes but with a pickup back ;D got a turbo on its way to me, gonna fit it to the 100e motor at first and when that has blown fit the suzuki jeep lump and turbo that :P :P :P :-\ :-*

Just a little scribble I did.

My Sherpa van front beam axle, with it's disc brakes.
The steering box was buggered so I'll fit either Lunatic's spare VW one or a Reliant one, (anyone got a spare?)
In the background is one of the 15" black taxi cab wheels I'll be fitting.

You can get brand new Landy boxes complete with steering column for £125.00, or I do know of a Land Rover breakers near me, could ask for you?

I have a piggy steering box here, off a Rialto I just scrapped.
If you could get over here you can have it.

Yeah, I've looked at Landy boxes on Ebay for similar prices, but been told they're quite big & clunky, plus that's a big chunk of my building budget. Didn't realise that price included the column too though.
Loony's got a VW box but I haven't seen it yet.
Any idea what the postage might be on your box RM?

Dunno, it's small but quite a lump. I will be cutting up the body in the next day or two and will unbolt & weigh the thing for you.

righto, with my Postman Pat head on, Standard Parcels can go up to 20kg's @ £12.46 but check with the local postoffice as sometimes it is cheaper to send a Heavyish article by Special Delivery :o I know it sounds mad but it's true ;D

Finally brought my Pop home to Basingstoke today. It's been living in a horsebox at Tazet's workplace in Guildford for the last few weeks while I cleared some garage space for it.
Opened the bonnet for the first time -well, lifted it off cos there's no hinges. Guess what -a steering box.
Brock's looking for a box for his new race car though, so may well be able to make use of the Reliant one RM.

So with a little help from Ska Man, (thanks Nige), Tazet & I unloaded my Pop from it's temporary horsey home this morning & rolled it straight into the garage, stopping briefly to take a couple of snaps.
My 16 inch black taxi cab wheels, (unfortunately the white band tyres are perished beyond use), propped in place to see what they'd look like. Not sure whether to go with these or stick with the original Pop ones & have them banded to create wider rims if necessary. I like the tall skinny look of "proper" 50s hotrod wheels though.

The bottom of the masking tape line would be roughly the height of the windows after a 4 inch roofchop.

 :o Hope you're going to re-jig the doors before cutting. ;D

As to the wheels, I would say keep the front original and band the rears.

Ripped my Pop to pieces today, found some rot around its rear :-[ so I don't feel to bad about cutting the rear off. If you need anything from a saloon Andy its yours mate.

with that stance, you gotta go Gasser mate ;)

I quite like the Pop wheels - I think it's the white on the tyres that makes tho others look so much better. I guess you could stripe any tyre with tyre paint if you got a steady hand...

Rear & side window glass would be good if you're not using it Shaun. I haven't got any at all.
Janie & Dave Posties visited on Sunday & we took another look at the Pop. I think I'm gonna run it more or less as it is for the time being -box the chassis, chuck in Dave's spare 1700 cc Consul engine with it's column shift box, (which'll mean pushing the front seats back a little), throw out the rear seat & run with the original two tatty brown leather front ones, the bakerlite dash I picked up at the NSRA swapmeet & as little else as I can get away with for the MOT. No interior panels, no carpet or headlining etc. Just the bare minimum to drive it. Some small satin black cycle guards over the tall skinny original Pop wheels, then blow the body over in pale Ford fern green with the MMMotors logo in black outline on the bootlid.

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its a good job youve got another engine some one's nicked the one out of the pop ;D ;D ;D

Rear and side window glass is yours, do you want the rear panels (in nice burgandy) ?
What about the rear wings???

Nice looking Enfield.

I will try and rip the steering box off this week. Was going to do it the weekend but I was forced to do housework instead  :'(

housework on a weekend, weekends are for tinkering and eating cake, hang on!i do that in the week aswell, explains why its messyin here. ;D ;D ;D

Afternoon David.  ;)
The Enfield's Janie's pride & joy -& one of the few bikes she can actually reach the ground on.
Lovely, lovely Dave here's got a spare mark 2 Consul motor which I hope to snaffle for the Pop. It'd be great to keep it as period-correct as I can, but I'll be bunging in the Sherpa front beam axle with it's disc brakes, cos I'd like to stop occasionally.
Dave's also got another Consul rear axle so that'll be going in too. That's 5 or 6 inches wider than the Pop set up, so I might try & get the rear wheels banded with extra inset so they come inboard over the axle, then run cycle guards front & back.
I'd like to keep the interior to just the two "distressed" brown leather Pop seats -no other interior panels. Keep it as stripped down as possible.
Makes sense to drive it for a while first before cutting the body up. Much easier to cut a roof or back end than try to weld it back together! 

Keep it simple like the old hotrods. If it does'nt make you go faster, it goes in the bin! ;D

Yup. I'll allow myself the luxury of glass though.
Yeah, I know -I'm a wimp.

Goggles! You wimp! ;D

To be honest Andy, you could probably have all my glass as I'm going to need new for my roof chop. Stick with the Pop front axle and fit either early Ford disc's or Triumph Spitfire/Herald front discs which is what I'm gonna do on mine.

If you really don't want the glass then of course I'll relieve you of it Sir. Thank you.
Dave says Consul motors are quite heavy so I think I'd rather go with the beefier Sherpa beam & some decent sized Sherpa discs.
The idea of a stripped down but basically untouched bodyshell is growing on me. More of a hillbilly Pop than a hotrod one.

We were at the Farnham classic car show today & got chatting to a couple with a Pop. They were still running the original sidevalve engine but plan to drop a Rover in at some point.
They'd fitted VW wheels. I knew they fitted but have never seen them "on". I like these. Maybe coloured rims with the chrome hubcaps?

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Flap & Manky discuss the important issue of hats.
Full roof height means you can wear a big hat. There's room for a decent top hat in there. Or one of those huge furry lumberjack jobbies that look like your wearing a dead cat on your head.
A 4 inch chop means it'd have to be a trilby. A bowler hat at the most.
Radical chopping requires a flat cap -& probably a flat top haircut too.

Manky if you want some VW beetle wheels I have loads including a complete set of gt wheels with new tyres on. The paint needs stripping off but might be useful.


Let me know if you  want em. 

Hi Byz, yup, I'm interested. I love the ultra skinny front Pop wheels with their square profile cross-plys, but they'd probably be scary to drive with. Beetle rims would give me a better choice of tyres, plus I'd like slightly wider rear rims anyway.
Can't decide what colours to go with. If I were keeping the Pop black, I'd paint the wheels in a pastel green. The car's going to be green though. Maybe chrome rims with matching green hubcaps? Can't afford chrome so It'd probably be metallic silver powder coat on the rims.
What do GT wheels look like?

I don't have a pick on the PC at the mo but will take one tomorrow and put it up here.


I have some standard wheels and some weller style chrome jobs too will post some pics of them too

The early Beetle wheels fit onto the Pop hubs, but if you are changing axles Andy that will become irrelevant unless you are going to make up adapters to take the Pop stud pattern. You already have 16" taxi rims that will fit onto the front axle, also 14 or 15" Sherpa rims if you kept them? that sorts out the front, that just leaves the rear end..

A stripped down "Hillbilly" pop sounds cool, but please don't put its arse in the air, if anything run it level and low ;D but that is just a personal thing on my part as all Pop's seem to have the same stance ::)

I'm going 3" chop with mine, subtle but will change the look of the car. anything more than that and I think you then have to start looking at things like channeling the body etc the get the look right.

This guy has chosen to channel the body rather than go for a roof chop.

Have you thought about pushing the front axle forwards on a suicide perch like this one? also lowering the back end as well so the whole thing site several inches lower but level?

couple more

Don't worry Shaun -tastefully tatty's the way to go I think. Definitely level & probably lower due to the weight of the Consul engine. Depends how high the Sherpa front beam sits really.
I've still got 4 taxi wheels -a pair of 15s & a pair of 16s, but I like the slotted Pop rims. Taxi ones are just plain. I think I've got a piccie of them somewhere. Hang on, I'll go & have a rummage ...

Here we go.
Pop wheels.

Taxi wheels.

you can buy brand new 15-14" VW wheels in 2 widths for around £40.00. I know what you mean about the nice look of the Pop wheels.
What do you think of the PrePop then??

I don't want to go too blingy so chrome wheels probably aren't the look I'm after. Painted would be more in keeping with the basic look, (O.K, powder-coated). I like the idea of re-cycling older stuff rather than buying new -but by the time they're coated they'll probably cost me more!
The Prefect-Pop's the channelled one? Can't decide. I prefer the Pop rad shell I think. The more I sit in mine the more I'm convinced to keep the bodyshell more or less standard, but dropping it over the chassis rails shouldn't be a major problem. Brock says I should push the front wheels forward with a perch poking through the rad surround. Not sure I like the look of the wheels that far forward though.
I think I'll end up taking the body off, setting up the rolling chassis with the Consul motor, box & rear axle & Sherpa front beam, then dropping the body on again & cutting to suit.
Let me know when it's convenient to come & pinch the glass & stuff from you matey. 

Anytime really Andy, if you are coming in the week I will leave it under the Pop's cover. Busy for the next couple of weeks shooting vehicles for the mag, but I am around Sat afternoon from 1ish to around 5 when I've got to get ready to go out for a meal with some friends (yes I do have some real one's ;)) if you want to "POP" over then, let me know and I will get some cake and diet "Pop" in ;D ;D ::)

Probably during the week's best. I'll let you know a day.

I belive the wheels Byzmax has are 4 stud for later Vws. In wide 5 stud you have the option of solid 14"(bus) and 15" x 4.5" or slotted in 15x4.5" or 15x5.5. Early beetles and buses (early 50's) had 16x4.5" rims which I might use on my v-rod. I really like the look of tall crossplies, they will probably handle terribly though!

Looks like it'll be the 15 x 4.5s on the front & 15 x 5.5s on the back then. Not desperately important yet cos the trike build's taking priority. The Pop's my Summer tinkering project.

Manky, as stated these are four stud ones so are no good for your pop rod!

If see any around I will let you know

O.K Byz.
Tazet & I were passing Valley Gas Speed Shop in Newbury today, on our way home from dropping some trike engine parts off at the powder coaters. We called in as one of my mates has started working there.
Out back they've got a Pop. They plan to fit a big block Chevy motor & a 9 inch Ford rear axle. Should be interesting.

Inside the workshop, among others, were these two beauties. 

have a look at the steering box on the Pop , is that the standard one ? pun intended.

Yup. Well, it's the same as mine anyway.

looks like mine as well ;D

Shaun's very kindly donated all the glass from his Pop for my own, as he's chopping his & will fit new glass afterwards. Thanks Shaun.  ;)
I picked up a set of interor door handles & window winders for 2 quid each at the Picket Piece classic vehicle show the other day, but still need the window winding mechanisms, door opening mechanisms & exterior handles.

No problem mate ;) I'm almost certain that I'm going suicide doors with mine, so if you can wait awhile you may be able to have my door handles and associated gubbins.

Suicide doors?  Is that a la 'Dukes of Hazzard' stylee?

No Bobbie, forward opening doors like Chris's Morris.

 

I want those seats out of Chris morris >:(.
Manky can you do me a favour please mate ;) can you draw around the front screen and one of the door windows for me. I really need a template for when I get my glass cut and it would be easier if I had the original size glass to work from, but some idiot let it all go before I he thought about this :-[ :-[ :-[  also let me know when you decide to part with your Pop front axle, wouldn't mind a spare plus I have a cunning plan about building a REALLY cheap Roadster.

Took my Pop along to the Basingstoke Transport Festival today, where it attracted more interest than the trikes!
Lots of little old men peering inside it.
Bob the merchandise guy printed off a couple of vinyl stickers for me, which we slapped on the doors. Looks like some old 50s banger racer now.  ;D

Er, yeah..................

Trust me, it'll be pretty when it's done Bobbi! Honest.

It'll never be done so Lunatic's gonna keep chickens in it.

So help him with the trike then he can move on to the pop  ;D

Yeah -what she said!  :P

How can anyone help him when he's never there doing it  ???

Now now children!  No squabbling please!

Get on with it Manky, it's got to be finished AND inspected AND all the rest for the Cornwall Run!

I know, I know!
HELP!

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i could give you a hand with the pop mankey, dont know much about trikes but restoring and customising old cars is right up my street, ive probably got some parts that would come in handy too

Hmm, let me think -do I want some help with this one?

...YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!!
                              -please.  ;D

My brother, Brock, is heavily involved in the drag racing & rodding scene & far more au fait with the design side of it all, so I'm hoping he'll have the time to get involved too. I just know what I like. Brock's a car guy with a liking for motorbikes. I'm a biker with a liking for cars. Never built a rod from the ground up but did plenty of work on my old Moggy Minors. It can't be that difficult -can it?
Biggest problem will be building with a budget of absolutely zero. Slightly less than zero actually. I want to keep things as 50s period correct as I can so will be re-using as much Pop or similar stuff as I can. Janie & Dave have very generously donated a 1700 Consul engine, (in need of a good check over & rebuild), box, column shift & rear axle. I've got a Sherpa van front beam axle with disc brakes which I was keen to use but Brock keeps telling me it'd be a lot of work, (& expense), to narrow it to fit, so maybe I need an alternative? Not sure the original Pop set up's man enough for the job as the Consul motor weighs twice what the Pop one did.
Not looking to build a glitzy show winner, just a good, solid daily driver.
This is basically the shape I'm after, though obviously without the huge motor & probably with banded versions of the original Pop wheels, (Lunatic knows of a place that does them under licence).

suspension wise it might pay to go independent such as a triumph herald or simillar, i dont think it would be too hard to fabricate the mounting points on the pop chassis

Yeah, Vitesse or Herald were always the first choice for Pops weren't they. I liked the Sherpa cos it's a beam axle like the original Pop one. It looks 50s. Also means I can use a steering box, rather than rack & pinnion, which'll give me more room & a tidier set up.
As I said, zero budget so can only go for Triumph gear if I can find it free or swap it for the Sherpa.
Anyone want a matched pair of front & back 200 series Sherpa van axles?

i might just be able to lay my hands on a chevette ifs

Hmm, interesting.  ;D
Would really like something that looks the part of a 50s rod, but buggers can't be cruisers, or whatever.
Can you grab a snapshot of the Shove-it bits? Is there a steering rack or box to go with that?

Full width Sherpa front beam on a '27 T, (the same body I've just given away in favour of my Pop). Also fitted with a Sherpa rear axle.

Narrowed Sherpa beam.
I'm told this was built on an old Bedford ambulance chassis so possibly a Bedford beam, but very similar.

yup gotta agree it does look right

so then mr manky when does the pop build begin? ive got a couple of projects nearing completion so should have some time on my hands soon

Coo, you're keen!
It's sitting under a tarpaulin outside Lunatic's farmyard workshop in Monk Sherborne at the moment. Being a Postie, I've got every afternoon spare. Not sure how Loony stands with doing evening work. I suspect he can't cos he obviously needs to stay in the good books of the locals. Weekends are fine, but being show season I've got a few events I'd like to go to -either the Marlborough steam show or Mersea car show this Sunday, the Invicta Roadsters rod show next Sunday & the Nostalgia Nationals drag racing at Stratford on Avon the following week. You should come along to that one. Watch Brock break the Black Pig. Lots of gorgeous machinery.
We can work outside but will have to wait for a slot when Loony's between paintjobs to do anything indoors.
I'd really like to get Brock over to lend his expertise too. I freely admit I haven't got a clue where to start!
 

no worries just let me know when your ready, in the mean time feel free to nip in for a brew at the spanner fingers old car shop,

Thanks.  :D
Would be nice to add you to the list of shops in the Motors, 4 wheels bit -take some snaps, a quick description of the kind of stuff you do etc.
I'll see if I can pin Brock down to a day when he can come over. If not we can start without him, but would rather have his experience if possible. I guess we'd need to brace the body then remove it from the chassis & start looking at positioning the Consul engine & box & axles? The sills are off the body & the doors have dropped slightly. I've got the sills that came off but no point replacing them until we know if we're channelling the body or whatever.

yes it would need bracing for sure, some of that tube you make the trikes with would be ideal across the door shuts and between the B pillars etc.
i have a few projects on the go up here that may be of interest to you and the other monkeys including a classic jag with modern mercedes diesel engine and a honda cafe racer plus various other classics under going different levels of work, so bring ya cam and note pad.
p.s dont forget the cakes

Nothing to stop you posting pics on the forum you know -but yup, I'll try & call in one day next week.  ;D

Evenings over at the shop are fine until about half ten. Be good to work a few evenings, stop me sitting in front of the tv every night!

Would stop me sitting here writing drivel every evening too. :P

   well have a look at this instead then, this is a link to the "Volkswagen " engines we were speaking about earlier

http://www.staggsracing.com/2StaggsEngines/StaggsEngines.htm

My older & more talented brother Brock arrived at my garage this afternoon. Very nice to see you Steve. After mooching around, poking the trike with sticks for a while, we wandered over to Lunatic's place to mooch around the Pop for a while.
Loony's dad, Psycho T, was there, along with Janie & Dave. Still seems a shame to cut the body up but I definitely want a pick up so it's gotta be done. As Loony said, there's hundreds of average saloons about but very few good pickups.
Been looking for a means of creating the compound curves of a new cab back. First suggestion was to re-use the curves at the top of the bootlid, but a check with Loony's profile guage thingy ruled that out. Then Mr Brock had a brainwave. Lunatic's got 3 or 4 VW camper vans in his yard. The corners of the rear valance are available as a repair panel for about 10 quid each. Loony just happened to have an old one in the workshop. Turn it on it's side, offer it up to the roofline -perfect. Hopefully, with a pair of those, the rest can be formed from flat sheet with the rear window from the Pop being recycled as well.
  

.

Or maybe I could pinch Lunatic Senior's FireBird wheels & build a gasser.

Nice one Andy, check this out http://z13.invisionfree.com/VolksRods_UK/index.php?showtopic=590 and follow the build through, explains how they built the cab back.

I've seen some opf that stuff when I take the car to my mechanic - he's got a unit across the way, you can see it in one of the phots!  Totally irrelevant but there you are....

cant you move the C pillars forward and maybe have a tiny side window like the aussie utes?

Could do -that's what Desperate Dan did with his Morris 8 pick up, (see the Motors, 4 wheels section of the main site). I'm not keen on the sloping cab backs of the Ozzie utes though. Here's a pro street one from Billing last week. I'd rather have a flat backed cab. That creates problems trying to get the roofline to flow smoothly from horizontal to vertical though. Using the top edge of the boot seemed a good idea but would give a sloping cab back when the curves were matched up so not what I'm after. Shaun's using the steel back panel from a Moggy Minor pick up, which would be ideal, but they're pretty scarce & priced accordingly, so beyond my non-existant budget. The VW panels look to be near perfect. My only worry is they're quite flimsy so welding old heavy guage steel to new paper thin stuff will be fun.

i have a few old panels here i will have a nose and see whats what, just might be something usefull

Thank you. Feel free to nip out to Lunatic's place & have a measure up of the Pop!

couldnt find any repair sections that would be suitable but may have found some seating, i know seats are a long way off but its worth getting while you can, i found an old rear seat that would make a great bench, and a few sets of fronts that might be useable, i will take my camera in tomorrow and grab some snaps

My Moggy Minor pickup had the back seat from an Austin Allegro as a bench seat.
I actually like the ripped up brown leather original Pop ones. Happy to run it with those -unless you have a similar brown leather rear? The car's rear, not yours.
The dashboard is bakalite & the steering wheel's brown so got to be brown seats.

oooooeeeerrrrr i do worry :o

I was down Wiltshire way for the steam & vintage fair yesterday, just outside Marlborough. Many photos here:
http://www.mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/Photos/wiltssteam10.6.07/

-"whoar, tha's a noice trac'or. Tis a thing o' beauty is that".
Had a great afternoon out all by myself, (Tazzie was busy horse eventing in Hampshire).
Anyway, I bought a pair of brand new tractor headlights from one of the suppliers stalls.
5" diameter, ball jointed, black painted, high & low beam, plus sidelight, (including bulbs. 10 quid each. Bargain.  ;D
Not owning a tractor, I'll pop 'em on my Pop.

   having seen the Pop , I'd keep an eye open for a tractor if I were you

 
 Big and little rubber, open sided engine bay, torque monster motors, big long gear sticks , vauge steering, it's all done for you

I have an overwhelming urge for a tractor. Now I know why!  :D
I just want one to drive around the country lanes on! 8)

Arr an you can see over the hedges in one of them too!

An keep yer scrumpy un'er the seat 'anall.

I have driven an old Fergie fitted with a rover V8 ;D ;D ;D ::) :o :-\ ::) bloody mental it was ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oh I'm so lucky with my job as I get to play in tractors every day  ;D

What's wrong with my Pop? :(

Nothing is wrong with it hun. I can't wait till its on the road, it will be great fun  ;D

nothing wrong with it mate...............................yet ;D ;D ;D ;D

You lot really know how to dampen a guy's enthusiasm don't you.  :(
It's still very tempting to just bung glass & an engine in it & run it exactly as it is. Just 2 tatty old leather seats & a steering wheel & nothing else. A pickup is what I really want though, but it seems like more & more work the more I discuss it with people. Brock keeps telling me I need to think about over steer & under steer & camber & trail & Gawd knows what else, & that I should design & build a whole new chassis.
I just want to stuff the Consul engine in & drive it.
Having purloined a matching Consul rear axle from Janie & Dave, Mr Brock now reckons the Sherpa van one I've got in my lockup would be better geared for the 15 or 16" wheels I plan to use, (Consuls use 13"s). It'd also mean I'd have the same bolt pattern on all 4 wheels as I still intend to use the Sherpa's disc braked front beam.

http://www.northernhotrodclub.com/page6.htm#

Have a look at this Pop. This is exactly what I'd like to do with mine, except with a column shift Consul motor, plated & Z'ed original chassis & beam front end.

that is bloody near perfect Manky, just throw away those shiney hoops for a set of steelies

How did you extract that picture?! I tried but it wouldn't let me.  :(
Yup, exactly what I want.

just gotta know how ;)

I know nuffink  :( -as I regularly prove here.

Click on the thumb-nail and as soon as the picture has opened right click and save image as, but you have to be quick. :o then close that window and click on next thumb-nail etc etc

Nicest pop pick up Ive seen I reckon. 8)
So far anyway! ;)

Yup, until Shaun's & mine are done anyway. ;D
I'll try that Shaun so I can keep the pics for future reference.

Mine is going to be the best :P :P :P :P so there ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D if you can't get the pictures Manky, let me know as I have all of them ;D ;D.

Did you get the sticker pictures ??? and will the mobile advert (Bobcat) be featured ?

No Shaun, no sticker pics via email yet.  :(
Captain Spanner Fingers was going to take a shot of a sticker in the window of his Pop too, but hasn't yet. No reason why we can't use Bobcat -as long as you don't want commision! ;) I took a few snaps of it at the Hopfarm but feel free to take a better one.
Yep, if you've got the Pop pickup pics, could you email them to me please.

I will email them tomorrow Andy, off to bed now as I have an early start tomorrow and have some strike pay loss to make up >:( >:( >:( >:( :-X

Same here. My day off tomorrow but doing my own delivery on overtime. Thought I'd be a few quid better off next week but now the strike will wipe that out.
And mine will be the prettiest Pop!  :P

Got your sticker photos Shaun. Thanks. Will get the Merchandise Page updated accordingly.

Tazzie & I borowed a van from Captain SpannerFingers yesterday & drove halfway across the World -well, deep into darkest Wales anyway. "Zed" from the BritChopper forum was selling some Moggy Minor parts & thanks to a shout from PantherShaun I was able to buy a steel Moggy pick up cab-back & roof section for 40 quid. Shaun wants the roof to replace the vinyl panel in his own Pop project & I wanted the cab back, so we went halves.
Zed & his good lady Jill turned out to be very nice people. I'm hoping they'll send in some pics of their Yam Wild Star chop & ongoing Panther project with Norton belt drive conversion. We left Basingstoke at around 7 in the morning, collected the parts from Wales, stopped off for a little sight-seeing & a bag of chips on the way back & finally got home at 10 last night. So we just dumped the cab panel at Lunatic's yard, where my Pop's in temporary storage. I nipped back after work today & took a quick piccie for you.
We measured it up & although it looks wider, the Moggy part's actually 2 inches narrower than the relevant bit of the Pop body. So hopefully we can tweak it to suit. Some rust damage, but all the important bits are intact & it's not bad for 20 quid. I've also got the original Moggy glass, (but not the rubber), so will probably keep the full size rear window when we chop the roof.

Here's the same panel fitted to a Pop, but with a modified rear window.

cracking thread/Pop project :) luv the concept that yer heading for keep up the good work :)

Thanks  :)
Shaun & I will both be building Pop pickups this Winter, both fenderless, 50s basic hotrod style, re-using as many orignal parts as we can & definitely both on shoestring budgets. So it'll be interesting to see what rolls out of our respective garages in the Spring!
I plan to keep the original tatty brown leather front seats from mine, together with a Bakalite dash from a 40s Ford Prefect & early LandRover or Morris Minor "banjo" steering wheel, both picked up from the NSRA swapmeet in Purfleet earlier this year. I want to spray the bodywork in the pale green used on original Pops.

Shaun intends to carry his old Panther motorcycle in the pickup bed of his rod, so obviously it needs to be long enough to accomodate it. Something like this, without the mudguards & with a 3 inch roofchop.

I wanted a 4 inch chop, but after much discussion, agree with him that 3's more practical for everyday driving -enough to show it's chopped without being too claustrophobic or looking out of proportion with the body. It'd be nice to be able to see the sky occasionally when driving! -& traffic lights etc.
I'd like to "Z" the original frame either end of the cab, to drop the cab lower without the need to channel it over the chassis. That'd raise the engine within the body, making it look bigger, as well as raising the pickup bed, making the roofchop look lower. I'd prefer a slightly shorter, sportier looking bed.
I really like the lines of this, but with a slightly more sensible motor!

Looks like a perfectly sensible motor to me! but then I'm not the most sensible bloke around eh!

 ;D With that roofchop & inlet stacks he must have about 4 square inches of windscreen he can see out of!

sheesh those plans sound like the Pops of you twos is gonna be well smart,like the idea of the Z setup i like the dropped cab look nice too see some peeps chasing yer dreams :) u still using the moggy panel,the pickup one? cant wait to see wot the two of u do luv the idea of the pickup Pop versions reminds me of Krazy customs car/bike combo that happens to be green too, well i'll just sit back in admiration :)

Yup, we're both using steel Moggy cab backs.
Watch this space!

keep watching, it will happen one day ;D ;D ;D if this rain ever stops >:( >:( >:(

Can't wait to make a start on them.
Shaun reckons he's chopping the roof & sorting all the other body mods first, then strengthening the chassis if it needs it afterwards.
I plan to add some temporary bracing to the body then lift it off in one piece. Rework the chassis -cutting & dropping the centre section then boxing it for strength, adding Sherpa axles & a Ford Consul motor. Then I'll drop the body back on & remodel it to fit.
Will be interesting to see which works out best.  :)

will that be in the new workshop Manky? or u starting it at loonies?

New workshop?!
Tazzie's got a wooden shed at the bottom of her garden, where we'll put together her trike over the Winter/Spring. I've got a rented council garage in Basingstoke where I'm piecing together my own trike. The Pop's too big to go in either so will, (hopefully), be done at Lunatic's workshop, (a unit on a farm). As he's a paint sprayer, all the messy stuff will have to be done outside, so the weather will play a big part in how long it takes.

Oh right when i was reading the ideas surrounding tazets place i think you mentioned if the sale works out there may be room to expand that current shed? i maybe wrong or just thinking to far ahead,typical dreamer me :)

Yup, some sort of expansion but not sure what yet. Part of the reason for clearing the bottom of the garden this weekend, so we can see just how much room we've got. The cottage isn't ours, it goes with Taz's job, so don't want to invest too much money in it. Also depends on her boss & her neighbours as to how much we can develop it. This is the Surrey countryside we're talking about! -a fully equipped machine shop in the back garden might not go down too well!
The existing shed's the size of a council garage. We can probably put up another the same size & maybe even link them together providing it doesn't contravene planning regs. Can't really build the Pop there but once it's done I'd like some sort of carport to keep the worst of the weather off it.
We'll see.

sounds good anyway :) with enough scope to continue Manky frames etc and space to park the Pop at least :) i ahve one open air carport and two corriders lol so could be worse :)

Build your trike in the living room!

your not far wrong there

Never gone quite that far, but I have sprayed a petrol tank in the spare bedroom -then had to completely redecorate afterwards.  :P

What a great day to be playing with the pop at Lunatics workshop. We've taken over 400 pictures so will take a while to sort through them.

Manky will be on line soon to fill you all in properly but just in case he forgets to mention. I did the first cut and did the whole roof length all by myself and the line was prety straight if I do say so myself  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*

Right, here goes then!
I bought my Pop, (which actually isn't a Ford Popular at all, but a 1953 Ford Anglia), from Neil on Ebay for £450 on the 25th February this year. Since then it's spent it's life being shunted from place to place until today, almost 8 months to the day since we collected it, we finally took the tarpaulin off, stood back & said
-"Hmmm, what're we gonna do with this then?"
I'd always wanted a pick up, but this ol' saloon just seemed too nice to cut up. After lots of hesitating & changes of plans & a Summer of checking out all the other Pops at various rod meets & shows though, I had to agree with PantherShaun that there's bloomin' 'undreds of Pop saloons out there -some very nice, some truly horrible, but very few pickups, particularly reasonably tidy ones. So the decision was made.
Taz & I travelled over to Wales & picked up, ( ;D), a steel Morris Minor pick up cab back, which Shaun assured me would be a pretty close fit on the Pop body, for 20 quid. At the Spring NSRA swapmeet we bought a Ford Prefect bakalite dash, a "banjo" steering wheel, (either original Pop, early Landrover or early Moggy Minor), plus a set of 4 black taxi cab wheels, which turned out to be a pair of 16 inch taxi wheels & a pair of 15 inch unknowns, maybe Austin Devon or similar.
I've also got a pair of Sherpa van axles, (same bolt pattern as the wheels, with a vintage looking beam front fitted with disc brakes).
The final part in my inventory was a 1700 Ford Consul engine with 3 speed column shift gearbox, but that's now up for discussion.
The MMMotors crack engineering team assembled at Lunatic's rural workshop this morning to assess the build. Loony & PD, Janie & Dave, plus Tazet & I. Dave immediately threw the plans into disarray by telling me he's been offered not one but two engines -a V8 Rover with auto box & Rangerover headers & a Granada V6, 150 quid each. He wants one & I can have the other. Bugger. So what do I go for?
So- first job. Unbolt the body & lift it off the chassis to get some idea of what we're facing.     

We took so many photos today I've actually made up a gallery for them & added some explanatory words in the Motors, 4 Wheels section of the main site here:

Pics of the Pop (http://mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/Hotrodpageimages/pop21.10.07/build.html)

So won't bother posting too many here. Read this, then go have a look.

V8 or V6 gotta be better than the consul lump ::)

Yeah, but which Shauny?

The previous owner had already taken the body off & temporarily tacked it back on with a few L shaped brackets & nuts & bolts, so no great dramas in removing it.
Before we did though, we took the precaution of hoiking the doors back into line with the bodywork & tack-welding them shut. Then we used some lightweight steel tubing, (an old set of garden gazebo poles!), to brace the interior -2 in a cross shape from corner to corner, plus a horizontal one at the back & another at the front.

Up, up & away!  :)

The 50 year old body's considerably firmer than mine!
The chassis ain't in bad nick either, but looks so flimsy. It's made from U shaped channel, so we'll plate the open 4th side of the rails to make a much stiffer square box section.

I plan to drop the centre section of the chassis by 6 inches, by "Z ing" it at both ends. That'll drop the cab unit down, giving it 5 inches of ground clearance -essential in Basingstoke, land of the speed hump & pothole, with the two ends staying at original ride height. Dropping the chassis with the body on it, rather than channelling the bod over the rails, means it'll retain full headroom inside. Next job will be to chop 4 inches out of the roof height.
The Sherpa axles will add 3 inches to the width either side, but as we're not bothering with the original front wings & there'll be a new pick up bed on the back, it won't matter.
After unbolting all the unwanted original Pop parts from the chassis, a test drive was obviously needed.

.

.

Yup, that's fine, but the brakes might need a little work.

So that was us done for the day really

...but isn't it tempting to start cutting that body up...

Ha harr!! Cut it! Cut it!!

...oh, alright then.
First cut went to Mrs Manky.

Didn't take long to reduce it to this.

Oooh, bugger. No going back now. :P

.

Anyone fancy building a Ford Pop based beach bastard trike?

Next, try the Moggy cab back in place. It's about 2 inches narrower than the Pop but nothing that can't be fixed. Looks promising, (we've deliberately cut the Pop an inch too long so we've got room to trim it exactly later).

That chasis still looks kinda flimsy to me.

B*stards  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( steaming ahead I see ::) ::) why not weld the Pop back end to a Beetle front 8) 8) 8) :-*

Don't tempt them!!

O.K, enough buggering about for today.
A final mock-up of the job so far.

No sills fitted here. They finish flush with the underside of the chassis. Body's just propped in place.

.

.

The cab will sit 6 inches lower, with another 4 inches cut out of the roofline. That'll hopefully bring the side windows down to exactly the same height as the standard Moggy Minor rear window. By Z ing the chassis, rather than channelling the body, there'll still be headroom inside. The seats can be moved back 6 or 7 inches to improve legroom. The front axle will be mounted 8 inches further forward to give more engine room & bring the front edge of the tyres in line with the radiator grille. The rear axle will also be shunted back to visually balance things out a little more. The pick up bed will be short & sporty, (to be honest, it's only there for show -I won't be hauling much in it). Might mount the original oval Pop fuel tank in the bed behind the cab. The top of the pick up bed will be level with the bonnet. Tall, skinny 50s style crossply truck tyres with black cycle guards on them.
Any observations? Constructive criticism gratefully received guys.

.

.

thats looks fcking brill already :) yer lucky having friends around you to make light work of the project :)

nice.

I want one !

You've got friends too VB, we're just a bit further away that's all.  ;)
I used to run a Moggy Minor pick up that looked just like this a few years ago. Just a cab unit on rails. Looked like something out of The Waltons, with every panel a different colour, but so much fun to drive.  :)
Apart from petrol money, this has cost me around 500 quid so far. Dave-Postie reckons his mate's got 2 running engines, a V8 & a V6, both autos & both running, for 150 quid a piece. I really don't want to go the well trodden route of Rover V8, Viva front suspension & Jaguar IRS rear, so the 6 is tempting, plus it'd be slightly more sensible & economical -but then, when did sensible ever figure in the equation?! Plus the V8's so common in Pops that you can buy mounting kits to bolt it straight in, uprated suspension etc. My only worry is whether the boxed chassis is up to the job. Brock keeps telling me to scrap it & start with a fresh, purpose made one & Dave-Postie knows of a local frame builder, (I'd love to persuade Brock to do it as he's already building his new drag car chassis, but know he's way too busy). The main reason for abandoning my model T rod project was cos I couldn't see any way of legally registering it for the road -the SVA regs are really tight for one off cars. Buying the Pop meant I've got something that's already registered. Not sure plonking the old body on top of what would basically be a brand new car would sneak through the ever tightening MOT. So I'd like to keep the original frame if I can.
You guys are welcome to come over to the yard & roll up & down it on the Pop go-cart if you want!  ;D   

Tis looking good Andy you had some fine helpers :D congrats to you all ;) , i could hear you all banging away while talking to Janie on the phone ;D

engine wise id go for  a straight 6 jag engine beauty of an engine and not many used in any thing as far as i now :) in yers gone by me and few m8s have used these to great effect and not sticking with the crowd ie v8s v6s :) i didnt mean the friends thing in a sad way, i was hoping to say it more like its nice to see friends all mucking in

We've got some very mucky friends!
There's an AJ6 4 litre Jag engine & box sat outside my brother Brock's workshop. It's been there for about 18 months now, gradually disappearing into the weeds. I was going to use it in the 27 T rod I was going to build. A physically huge motor. Very heavy. If I put that in the Pop it'd flip it up on it's nose! Anybody want it?

Doc, I've only just realised you've Photoshopped this pic!
I only spotted it cos the fence panels don't line up properly behind the cab! I've got P/Shop but no idea how to use it.
Can you drop the cab unit 6 inches between the wheels? (half the height it is now).
And Happy Birthday by the way! ;D

thanks,no bother ,how about ?

not photoshop mate,its called MGI photosuite,dead simple to use.and its free.

I'll have a look at that matey.
The second shot, with the bottom of the body shaved, looks pretty cool but I'll stick with the dropped body & roofchop I think!
So- can you add a pickup bed? The length of the existing chassis rails & running level with the bottom of the windows/top of the bonnet. Oh, & it'll be pale green with maybe cream wheels. ;D

With the Logo left on the side too  ;D

crap attempt

 ;D Looks fine to me! I'm gonna build it just like that now!

Hey looking good  ;D

both wheels same colour  ;D ;D ;D

Oi! You've hijacked my truck! MMMotors logo in black outline please!
The bed looks about right there, which suprises me -I thought it'd have to be longer to look in proportion to the rest of the car. The benefits of photo manipulation eh.

oops ,some people will do anything for free publicity eh? sorry MM, ;)

Bloomin' cheek!  ;D

fixed ;)

 ;D
That's better!
Got to be a plain black outline version of the logo though I think -the red will really clash with the green.
Bet you can't do that!

'Ere Doc, do you think you can shift the front wheels until the tyre is level with the nose of it?

?

Thanks doc. We are planning to run the new axle further forward when the chassis gets done, hope that answers the ?. ;D

The opposite of that Doc -just an outline drawing as on our T shirts.
Wonder how difficult it is to get through the SVA? Or do I just change the vehicle description on the logbook from saloon to pickup & see what happens?

?? ;)

Matt Black!

Nah, black's too common. That's it Doc. I'm planning on this Ford green.

close to it as i can get.

took the liberty of making your pop a bit more radical
drop body
kick out front
kick out back
lose moggy back panel
use pop back end
ford green
logo
cream wheels

Almost a crew cab. I like it  ;D More room for cake  ;D

exactly  ;D and not instantly recognizable as a pop,which is the point ,isnt it ?

im starting to feel sick :D

Someone mention cake?   MMMMmmmmmmm

 ;D
We talked about using the Pop rear section for the cab when I first bought it, but not personally my taste. That's how the Australian export model, (the Ute), was done. Pete Moore's is on the cover of the new issue of Custom Car, (Nov. 07). And it's green! Desperate's Morris 8 in the Motors, 4 Wheels bit's done by shunting the rear of the body forward too.

http://mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/Hotrodpageimages/morris/8.html

i think that DD's car is well cool(cos its not instantly recognizable as what it once was)but still looks like a production model,sort of.

V8 good light(ish) sound engines, and I think that they are lighter than the V6.

how could you not want this ?

 ;D
Seen it at a few shows this year & it's absolutely flawless, beautifully put together, but just not my cup of Earl Grey. Not keen on the domed cab shape. Also unsure about the way the pick up body flows out of the cab bodywork. Much narrower doors than a normal Pop too. I prefer a good old fashioned traditional seperate pick up bed & straight backed cab personally.
'Tis nice though.

O.K, day 2 of the Pop build saw a different line up of Monkies back in the workshop. Tazet's away for the weekend & Janie & Dave were busy, so then there were 3 -Lunatic, PD & my good self. Flap arrived while we were still in the "Hmmm" stage -standing back, taking a good look at the job in hand & going "Hmmmm". He'd heard we had donuts. He stayed just long enough to plunder our commestible stash then buggered off to play with his Landrover. Nice to see you again anyway mate. Later in the day Mr & Mrs Lunatic Senior also came along to see what we were up to.
So- where do we start then?
Lots more bracing I think. We'd put a basic framework of lightweight tubes in before taking the body off the chassis & cutting the rear section off, but removing the roof would take with it any last semblance of rigidity. So a network of cross braces had to go in to minimise the risk of the whole thing collapsing like a big wobbly car shaped jelly thing.  

The doors, which we'd previously tack-welded shut, also had to come off at this point, which meant even more tubing. This thing's better braced than the Forth Bridge. 

The original sills were supplied loose with the car when I bought it & closer inspection revealed why. The front ends had been repaired once before & rotted through again, while the bottoms of the A pillars where the sills attach were made up of 10% wafer thin steel & 90% filler.
I've checked the "Pop Brown's" catalogue & new sills go from 45 quid + VAT each to 95 + VAT, depending on the quality. They do A post repair panels for 85 quid + VAT each.
So we'll repair what we've got with a sheet of new body panel steel from Loony's local supplier for 7 quid delivered.

I plan to run the Pop with an open sided engine bay -much discussion on the pros & cons of various engines has led me back to the tried & trusted, though boringly predictable, Rover V8 choice. So the inner wings have been junked with just a small spar from their top edge remaining to act as a brace for the bonnet flaps. We've also trimmed back the A post leading edges to suit.

Luckily, someone's already done a pretty good job of filling the roof panel. After the War steel was in short supply so to save money Ford used a vinyl insert stretched over wooden spars in several of it's 40s & 50s models. A rodders' favourite trick is to use the large flat expanse of steel sheet from a modern car bonnet or van roof. You can see the original opening inside the car here.

The windscreen pillars had wooden inserts to tack the headlining to.

I'd planned to go for a 4 inch chop to bring the side windows down to the same height as the rear Moggy Minor one, but a phone call from PantherShaun, as we were literally poised to make the first cut, persuaded me to go for 3 instead. He & his helper, Grizz, were also chopping their Pop today & had stolen an early start on us. He advised me that 3 inches would bring the windscreen down to just over 7 inches tall, (he thinks that's the legal minimum), & that any lower would render the car undrivable. So 3 it was. Thanks Shaun.
Nothing very high tech about the actual cut. We measured halfway up the rear pillars from the swageline on the body, then 1 1/2 inches either side of that centreline to give us 3 inches. Fortunately the same moulded line ran through to the front pillars so they were marked, measured & a horizontal line drawn around each pillar on a band of masking tape.
Let the cutting begin! 

At this point we realised that if our braces didn't hold the thing as solid as a rock, the 4 corners would be left swinging about in space once the lid was peeled off.
Too late to go back now!

.....Success!!
We now had a cabriolet cab. Or a pile of interestingly shaped scrap metal.

The required 3 inches were sliced off the pillars.

And the roof was plonked back on.
We were stunned to discover it actually fitted pretty damn well. The front windscreen pillars line up beautifully, with all the moulding lines flowing almost perfectly. Nothing that can't be finished to perfection with a little time & patience.
Because the roof section's moved forward to line up the front pillars, the rears are about an inch too far forward. Sideways though, they're spot on. So we'll slice them off under the gutter line & slide them back to reattach in their original positions. With luck we won't even have to add any filler strips of steel into the rear of the roof panel as the cut line lines up with the bottom half of the pillars nicely.

.

Lunatic did a quick check of the symmetry of our cuts by making a cardboard template of one side of the windscreen, then flipping it over to check the fit on the other side. Spot on. Damn we're good!  ;D

The front pillars are now virtually finish-welded with just a little fettling & smoothing off to do, while the rears are tacked in place for the time being to keep everything nicely aligned. Next time we'll slide the top of the rear pillars back & fully weld them too, before moving on to the doors.

Amazing what a difference 3 inches can make!  Much meaner looking now. Shaun was right, 4 would've been too much.

A bit more "Hmmmm" time -I'm having second thoughts about the green paint now! The black looks much more vintage &, much as I hate the very over-done satin black paint with red wheels combo, I like our red & cream logo against the black. Maybe get the body as straight as we can & go for high finish glossy black with the logo on each door & cream wheels to pick up on the cream in the logo? Perhaps with a simple red coachline along the swageline in the door panels, extending along the top of the pick up bed & the bonnet to tie it all in together?
Ahh well, time to roll it back inside for another night. All in all, a good day's work I think. Many thanks to Lunatic for his welding, (I'm not used to working thin sheet steel, as I mainly weld heavy gauge tube for trike frames). Also to PD for his able assistance. Thanks guys.  ;)

   very , very , impressed.

   thought about laying the B posts forward, quadrant cut lower front at the waist line and below the gutter at the back, sort of makes the lines flow a little smoother ( that'll be an opinion in case you didn't spot it  ;) )

cracking work Gents..but then i said that already in shauns thread!!as mankies pop is over spilling in there too :)

"very , very , impressed".

-Really? That really means a lot. Thank you.  ;D
Sloping the rear pillars above the waistline would take us back to the Aussie Ute shape again wouldn't it. I'm just not keen on that dome-headed look personally. I prefer the more traditional straight backed cab style.
Even just leaning into the cab over the cat's cradle of bracing poles, I can feel it's gonna be quite claustrophobic to drive. Spread your fingers as wide as you can then hold them up in front of your face -that's the height of the screen I've got to peer through. Stick a large diameter steering wheel in there, windscreen wipers, rearview mirror, tax disc etc & suddenly there's not an awful lot of glass left.
Shaun & I have both gone for 3 inch chops but it turns out my 3 inches is bigger than his! Team Panther measured theirs on the sloping front screen pillars while Team Manky went for the rear upright ones. So ours is a true 3 inches lower while theirs is something like 2 3/4. As Shaun said, it'll be interesting to compare them side by side.

thats looking very cool andy spot on m8

Hi Andy,not really into 4 wheelers but must admit this looks great.There's a Chevy that looks like Ricks,well it does to me the amateur,riding around up here at the moment,sort of cream colour,but I can't catch the guy parked anywhere to get photo's or a chat,catch you later,Fred

Nice one Mr Manky. you guys went about the chop a completely different way to Grizz and me. Actually I was Grizz's helper :-[ as he is the expert and I am the novice but next time >:( >:( >:( got some killer idea's in my head :o ::) :-\

Nab him when you get the chance Fred & send us in a write up & pics please!

Shauny, we certainly didn't have an expert on our team -none of us had tried anything like this before, though Lunatic, Postie_Dave & I are all hotrod fans & have read numerous roof chopping articles in magazines over the years. It's a different matter when you're stood looking at your car with a grinder in your hand though. Maybe it was beginner's luck, or just ignorance of the potential pitfalls mixed with blind optimism, but it seemed to go really well. Touch wood. Maybe there's so many chopped Pops around cos they're so easy to do. All the magazines mention cutting the roof into 4 or 6 sections, leaning pillars backwards or forwards etc -not just cutting it & plonking it back in place again. Of course, we only had half a roof to do.
-So how did you go about it then?

Sure will matey

here yuhs go Manky :) saw this on ChopperBuilder forums :)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Chrysler-Side-Valve-Engine-and-Drive-Train_W0QQitemZ200169164876QQihZ010QQcategoryZ100909QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like you boys had a good day. Sorry I was not there to make T's. I see Lunatic braved the cutter while everyone else pinned down the frame to stop it bouncing accross the yard  ;D
I agree with the black paint with red pin striping and the same would be good for the interior cose brown rustic would look odd. Maybe just get covers for the seats, (black with red piping) and sew on some Manky patches.
So whats the plan for the next day we spend down at Lunies workshop?

I've got a brown bakalite dashboard from a Prefect & a brown steering wheel, (possibly original Pop. Not sure). It'd be sacrilege to paint the dash but possible I suppose. Providing they don't clash I think a black interior with the black paint would work best with just a hint of red -red piping on the door panels, rather than on the seats. If we're going with glossy black paint outside then the interior needs upgrading from tatty & well worn brown to much smarter black. I want to push on with the body at least before the Winter weather gets here. Can't put a floor in it till we know what's happening with the chassis, but the final welding of the roof can be done, with the tops of the rear pillars being moved back to line up with the bottoms as we said previously. The sills can be repaired & fitted & the bottoms of the A posts repaired. Then the doors chopped & bolted back on. That'll keep us busy for a while!

guess you didnt like the look of that engine then?

Thanks for the post VB, but nah, not quite my thing. The Consul engine was attractive cos it was a 50s Ford, the same as the car. Looks like it's gonna be the Rover V8 now though.

Got lots to do this weekend so only managed an hour or two at the workshop today. Long enough to cut one of the rear door pillar tops off the roof & tack-weld it back in it's right position. Cutting into the guttering revealed acres of body filler -& very little metal. This rot will all have to be cut out & replaced with fresh sheet steel. A laborious process but worth it in the long run.

Somebody had spent a fortune on body filler for this car.

Check my Pop's post manky ;)

Looks like it would be easier to dump it all and construct something new!

I reckon by the time we've finished, the windscreen surround will be the only original bit left!
Yours is looking great Shaun -but mine'll be prettier!
Had a look at Valley Gas Speed Shop's gasser style Pop last night.

hmm loads a money there :)

hmm Manky are u binning yer wngs ?

Yup -well I would if I had any. The 50s hotrod look means it's gotta be fenderless but I'll be running small cycle guards instead.

 :o take a magnet with you next time eh ?

um so there gone already ?

Not so much gone, as never there in the first place VB.  :) Mine didn't come with any fitted. I share Shaun's view that 50s rods should be fenderless -stripped down to just the basics. If you happen to be looking for a pair of genuine steel Pop front wings, (why?), Shaun's still got his as far as I know.
I knew the filler was there when I bought the car Doc -the gutters were literally filled up with the stuff, so had half planned to de-gutter it anyway. I chatted to Shaun earlier today & he tells me his is just as rotten as mine. Fortunately, with only half a body, we only need to do half as much remedial work. Frustrating cos I want to plough on & get the body finished, but obviously it's worth cutting out every last inch of rot & repairing it now, rather than having to do it later, when it's finished.
I'm not forsaking my trike to play with the Pop, but as it's taking up much needed space in Lunatic's workshop, I've got to push on with it cos I don't want to outstay my welcome!

the pop wings  i just wanted to experiement with them see how with alterations they might look as mudguards on the trike :) thats all. i to belive hotrods should be mudguardless :)

An expensive option -a pair of gennie steel wings will set you back the best part of 300 quid. I've seen Beetle ones used as trike guards with the headlights still in them. Certainly different.

thats why i was asking if you pair were binning them :)

mine sold I'm afraid, had no use for them or storage space ::) ::) ::)

ok np was worth an ask

The new cab's a ...erm, snug fit. ;D

is that a genuine flinstones model ,mank ? ;D

 ;D It's about the same age, yeah.
Not planning on fitting luxuries like a radio or heater. With Taz & I sat in it in the Winter in thick sheepskin flying jackets it's gonna be very cosy.
I was thinking about the colour scheme today while I was plodding the streets delivering the mail- definitely going for black now, rather than the green I'd originally planned. It just looks right. I want to do the interior in black too, with maybe red piping on the door panels to break it up a bit. I've got a brown Bakalite dashboard & brown steering wheel & they're going to clash with the black. I could weld in a plain steel dash panel & spray it black -or I could paint the Bakalite one. Seems sacriligeous to do it, but maybe worth doing for that very reason! Lunatic suggested doing it in candy or flake red so the Bakalite patterning shows through it. Will probably put the brown steering wheel aside & go for a repro black one instead. Saw some nice 4 spoke vintage tractor ones at the Dorset steam fair a few months back. I've half wondered about panelling the whole interior in polished aluminium, but it'd be like sitting in a microwave oven in the Summer! Or maybe we could turn the finished body upside down & do the whole interior in bright red metalflake!
A little more progress this evening. We chopped the top off the doors & bolted them back in place. Once they've been tweaked a little to line up properly, we'll tack weld them in place so we can continue cutting out & repairing the gutter rot. Closer inspection of the doors shows they've both been repaired, one with a large amount of fibreglass -so that'll need sorting too. We've added a small patch at the back edge of each gutter just to hold everything in place, & will work our way forward from there.  

.

Another half hour's work on the Pop jigsaw tonight. I folded a couple of short lengths of 20 gauge sheet to take the place of the buggered guttering & Loony tacked them in place. We'll inch our way along the gutter line, cutting out & tacking in, not fully welding anything until it's all had a final tweak to line it up perfectly.
I don't want to use body filler & Lunatic's keen to try some lead filling so that looks the way to go.
The repair work's frustratingly slow -I wanna do the big stuff that makes it look like it's nearly finished! -but it's got to be done.   

coming along nicely mate, will look good when finished. Can't wait to get them side by side at a show someplace ;D ;D ;D ;D
just been looking at my 2 CV's rear seat, might make a good bench for the Pop ;D

I used an Allegro rear seat as a bench in my Moggy Minor pick up years ago. Black velour with fold down arm-rest. Would have to be leather for a Pop though I think. Think I'll probably stick with 2 seperate seats in mine -mainly cos I think the V8 gearbox tunnel's gonna be quite high. I sold Loony a pair of repro Austin Chummy seat frames a while ago for his Volksrod. They'd look pretty cool, powder-coated metallic silver to look like aluminium bomber seats. Maybe just buy new black covers for the original Pop ones.
If you're going for a bench, how about covering it with a Mexican blanket, as is the current trend with rods, but have it properly upholstered -Mexican blanket tuck n roll.

Funny you should say that :D I have a genuine Mexican blanket at home that I purchased from a stall in Tijuana in Baja California years ago ;D ;D

Manky and I were only talking about that a few hours ago! 8)

what??? my Mexican blanket >:( >:( >:( I knew I shouldn't have let you use my toilet >:( >:( you must have had a good look around :P :P :P :-\ :-*

Mexican blankets in general!! I havent been snooping round your loo! Honest ;)

What else are we supposed to do when the door sticks and you can't get out  ;D

Mr Lunatic & I spent the afternoon de-guttering a bit more of the Pop. The rust appears to end halfway along the door tops, with the front section being pretty solid, which'll save us some work. We decided to re-install the top half of the door frame & build up the body to suit, rather than trying to make the door fit the hole we create. Dropping the door height by 3 inches means the frame has to move forward to line up again, leaving us a small section to fill in. Shouldn't be a major problem.

.

The door's temporarily tacked to the body again to hold everything in position while we work on the guttering. We weren't sure how it'd look minus the gutter rail, but with some patient metal bashing by Loony it should have a nicely rounded shape -like me :)
The rear corners of the door tops will be radiused -an arc cut off the door frame & welded into the body to make them curvier.

The side windows are now roughly 10 inches tall, with a 7 inch windscreen. I'm not gonna see the sky very often driving this thing. Enough room to get my elbow out the window though, for that all important cruising stance.
We seem to have somehow become left hand drive!

   I've never noticed the difference in glass height before, bit late now but you could have cut the screen suround out , chopped the shell and let the screen back in higher in the roof line to level the tops ( isn't there always one, after the event ! ) Doesn't the piece out of the rear of the door fit the top too ?
   Looking good by the way

Now you tell us!
Nah, I like the shape as it is. Chopping the pillars is one thing, but wouldn't want to disturb the actual roofline. Yep, we've carefully stored the section from the rear upright to fill the gap at the top of the door, (O.K, we slung it on the floor, but we know where it is when we need to retrieve it). Still a fair bit more tweaking required to get the 2 door top sections to line up perfectly & Loony's hammering away at the gutterline to get it to flow nicely.
I'm pleased with it so far.  :)

cracking work Looney bet yer glad to have that helper Manky with you :D

Not much of a help at the moment. I can cut slips of plate to bridge the gaps & hold them in place while Loony tacks them, but the rest is really a one man job. Very frustrating cos I want to forge ahead, but time spent here will be well worth it when it's finished.
Had a call from Shaun this afternoon to say he & Grizz were giving up for the day, having been working outside on his Pop in the freezing cold since early this morning. We were still standing around the heater in Loony's workshop, drinking tea, munching choccie chip biccies & getting ready to make a start.
The front of the door top was taken out again, adjusted a little more with the grinder & put back in. That's better. The joint in the top of the window frame lines up better now. The section cut from the rear upright was re-used to fill the gap. It needs a little fettling, but it's almost right.
Then we removed the last of the gutter & tacked in fill-in strips of fresh steel. As I said yesterday, the front end of the roof's pretty solid, so the new steel can be blended in to run down into the front door pillar quite nicely.

The sharp corner at the back edge of the door was softened by radiusing it -cutting an arc off the door & welding it into the body shell. A small detail but it helps with the overall curvy shape of the cab, emphasising the flowing lines of the gutterless roof, & will hopefully echo the curve of the Moggy Minor roof section. Seems to make the car look more vintage too -like a 50s Yank truck.

Kinda busy this week as I'm moving house on Thursday, but we'll be back at the workshop on Tuesday evening.

50s yank truck, steady on Andy  ??? gutterless bodys one thing i found with a Camaro every time you open the door when its raining it drips in on you or pours inside :-[

Mr Lunatic Senior's got a Pontiac Firebird stashed away round the back of the workshop. That did exactly the same thing apparently. Reaading the Pop Parts Plus & Pop Browns catalogues, there seems to be 3 or 4 different pieces of rubber seal & trim that make up the door seals. Unfortunately the previous owner of mine has "repaired" the door opening & plated over the channels the rubbers sit in. Hopefully we can rework them & get a vaguely waterproof cab.

Passenger side is all welded and ground down. Start on the drivers side tomorrow evening then.

Woo hoo! Thank you Sir. A slow day on the VW front was it?  ;D

Was waiting for some bits to turn up and I couldnt help but grind down the welds! Its much neater now!

Looking good guy's, love the door top.

Really jealous of your workshop Loony  :'( :'(
I think our 2 pickups are going to be SO different don't you think ;D ;D

Hope so! We're building custom cars, not kit cars. ;D
Wouldn't it be boring if they turned out identically. I think they're both looking pretty damn cool!
We're off to pick up the Rover V8 for mine on Sunday.  ;D

too right, mine is going to look like a mildly hotrodded standard truck (I hope) whilst yours is going to look like a full on Hotrod, am I right ???

With a little flexibility you can just get in it! The video of me getting out throught the window is good though! ;D
What are we using to pick up the V8 in?

Lookin' good Loony. :D
The guy with the V8 has a Transit pickup & says he can deliver it -to my lock up for the time being?
He owns a Granada & took a V6 out of it to fit the V8, which came from a Standard 8 drag car, (although I don't think it's race tuned). Then a Cosworth lump came up so he fitted that instead & the V8's been sat in the garage ever since.

   along with a Standard steering box ?

 ;D I'll ask!
The motor was removed 4 years ago so I'm guessing the drag car's long since gone or been fitted with something else.

No steering box I'm afraid Steve. Just the engine & box sat on a trolley in the guy's garden.
Looked pretty good. Turned over nicely & made nice wump, wump wump noises, but the owner couldn't get it to fire. It had a weird connector block in the ignition circuit that no-one could figure out. I think I'll definitely buy it but I'll wait till the guy who took it out of the car can come over in a couple of days & fire it up.

After we'd been to see the engine, Loony & I got to work on the cab back.
On PantherShaun's recommendation, I bought a 1970s Morris Minor cab back panel from a Brit Chopper forum member in Wales. Cost me 20 quid & had some major rot in the bottom half, but we weren't planning on using that bit anyway. We cut it off level with the waistline on the Pop. The Moggy panel's a couple of inches narrower than the Pop so had to be cut & widened somewhere. Cutting it straight down the middle would mean having to have a new rear window specially made. Cutting it either side of the window opening means the standard glass, (which I've got), will go right back in.
Mr Lunatic started by tacking the centre section to the Pop roof in the middle then working out either side, pulling the 2 roofs together & tacking to create a nice flowing curve. The Pop roof's now got a nicely rounded profile, instead of being dead flat as it was before.

.

.

Then the sides were tried in place. Not bad. A little massaging & they'll do nicely. That'll leave an inch wide strip to add in either side of the window.
Lookin' good. For half a car with the back of a car 20 years younger slapped on, it looks right.
Nice work Loony. ;)

thats looking good m8

It'll look better with me cruising in it!  8)

nahhhh ya got that wrong m8 it would look even better with me cruising in it  ;D ;D pmsl

Good work guy's, looks the bollox already  ;D, see I told you it would fit  :P :P

I've never figured out why B*llox should be a compliment.
There's more filler on the roof than we originally realised & what looks like factory lead filling too. Seems to be 2 joints in the roof, one at either end of the door, identically placed on both sides of the car, that've been filled with lead. We can't weld to that & it melts away to nothing as soon as you wave an oxy torch at it. So Loony will plate over the deepest areas & we'll try our hand at leading the rest. Have you got the same joints in your roof Shaun, or is ours an early cut & shut job?   

was the original vinyl section taken out of the roof by you manky ?

No, already done when I bought the car. A tidy job, not bodged. The joints in the roof are only in the original section that runs around the outside of the insert & are quite deeply V'd. Even if it were the result of old accident damage, it doesn't matter as we're virtually rebuilding the car from scratch. We're just curious that's all. I'll try & get a photo of them.

OK m8
i did some research years ago about ford pops/Anglias and the results i got was. What ever they had to hand was what got fitted at that time lol
they adjusted the doors with bits of 3"x2" wood lol

 ;D Yeah, that's the impression we've got! Wonderful stuff!

any progress???

No, 'fraid not.  :(
Lunatic's been ill this week with a flu bug thing, plus when he's been O.K to work, he's needed to get on with paying customer's cars. So the Pop's had to take a back seat for a while, (if anyone wants a Pop back seat I've got one by the way!). The pick up body's all just tack-welded at the moment with everything still subject to change if necessary. It's a patchwork of small fill-in pieces of steel sheet. Loony's taken the rear cab-back corners back off & repositioned them a couple of times, trying to get a perfect curve to match the original Pop roofline. The centre section of the Moggy cab back's still got it's strengthening flange, (where it used to bolt to the Moggy cab), which helps to keep it's roof shape. We've taken the flange off the corner sections though so they can be pulled about to meet the original Pop panels. Next job is probably to repair & replace the sills under the doors to tie the whole cab unit together into one piece & give it some rigidity.

The heart of the beast.
My newly acquired 3 & a half litre Rover V8 engine & auto box. Up & running & bought for 200 quid from a friend of a friend here in Basingstoke.
Vroom, vroom! ;D

Thanks to some research by Brock we now know the motor came from a 1979-80 SD1 Auto Rover with 9.35:1 compression. Mind you, there's no guarantee the heads came from the same motor. The guy I bought it from seemed to think they were from another model. They're wearing Range Rover exhaust headers, which are more compact than SD1s, so he may be right.
I don't intend playing about with the motor too much, just a quick tidy up & fix any leaks, then bung it in. If it ain't broke, don't break it by trying to fix it.

that trike would look nice with mudguards on mank......... ;D ;)

It'll get them, don't worry!
Gonna buy some new rear tyres cos mine are too old for the MSVA -I'm told they've got to be 5 years old or less & according to the date code on mine they're 18 years old! Absolutely nothing wrong with them though, loads of tread & no sign of the sidewalls perishing, so I'll keep them as spares. New tyres might solve the mudguard/tyre clearance problems. Unlikely but you never know. It'll give me a better idea of exactly what size spacers I need to have made anyway.
Then the mudguard struts can be trimmed to length, mounts for side marker lights added to the open tube ends, then indicator mounts & the mounting holes for the guards themselves of course. After that, the struts need drilling for the wiring & powder-coating in gloss black.
Then they'll be fitted!

Well, my Pop's all finished & on the road. Looks O.K don't it.


...............I wish.  :(

yeah, just OK though, you should have arched that rear screen if you were going to use such a heavy belt line. Did you see the other shots of it, same gallery.

very nice Manky mate, agree with Brock ;) :-*

Sigh.
O.K, I'll do it again.  :)

Called at Loony's workshop this afternoon after work. PD was there too. The boys were hammering my Pop, cutting & tacking in the filler strips either end of the cab back. Lookin' good chaps.  :)

A fuzzy pic but it shows just how much we've changed the profile of the ol' Pop -for the better? I was berated at work this morning for cutting up a classic car. Tough! It's mine & I like it!
Dodgy looking pair lurking next to it though.

I made myself useful by cutting out the rotten ends of the original Pop sills & making new repair pieces. Loony will weld 'em in place & bash 'em into shape. They're deliberately overlength so they can be trimmed back once fitted to suit the new body shape.

nice work Gents :)

Bugger.
Had a letter from the DVLA today. I'd sent off the Pop's logbook & changed the body type from saloon to pick up, plus changed the engine details. They've told me they need to inspect the vehicle before they can issue a document.
The DVLA have been tightening up their act for the last couple of years -seems the days of slipping seriously altered vehicles through the system undetected are over.
So- I've now got to build my Pop to SVA standards. Bugger.
I've read on other forums that the commercial vehicle version of the SVA test is much simpler than the normal car version. Even so, it's a daunting prospect. I need to start looking into it all.
Worst case scenario- it'll still get built. If I can't meet the regs, I'll take it drag-racing instead! 

 >:(the miserable sod try to take the fun out of everything don't they
good luck with it all m8

Better to be legit in the long run I guess.

Well in that case we might as well put a new chassis under it! ;D Did they say it needs to be SVAed or just an engineers report?

In the long run it would have to be inspected as the mot testers are being told to report anything with modified chassis/ suspension, might as well do it now rather than later.

True. I really need to talk to someone & find out exactly what's what. If it's just a matter of it needing to keep it's original chassis to qualify as the original vehicle, & I'm allowed to change the engine & suspension, then it's not a problem. Would just mean I couldn't "Z" the chassis as I'd planned. If, however, any deviation at all from standard requires a full SVA test, then we've got nothing to lose. I'm sure I read a thread somewhere on the NSRA forum about a pick up that had passed SVA despite arriving without engine, glass, interior & a million other bits.
I'll wait till my local licensing office contact me to arrange an inspection & ask them where I stand with it all.
-Don't let that stop you working on the body though mate!  ;)

Sooze over at BritChopper is s**t hot on bike /trike related svs mvsa stuff i reckon Sooze would know about hotrods too? maybe worth an ask any rds :)

I'll ask for you Manky, as I will need to know as well.But I do think it is modified at all, including axles, brakes etc sod sod sod  >:( >:( >:(

You could tow it behind the trike eh!

There is - or used to be - a points system for deciding whether a vehicle can keep the original registration, but basically it means it need to keep about 3 out 4 main parts, ie frame (or chassis), engine, wheels, suspension.  That's how come my trike has the old reg no, as really only the swingarm is modded.  Don't think yours will qualify for that!

i think that you just notified them of too many major changes ,should have done it gradually .

He only put engine number and changed body style and nothing else. He had to send the V5 off to change the address on it when he moved.

yea,but what i meant,was,notify changes one at a time,ive done it recently with a chop,changed the engine number,then,later on changed the chassis on the book.

Oh well. Bit late now  :(

Good Morning Tazet cold aint it m8

Yeah, I've always changed details over bit by bit like that, but the system's just getting tighter & tighter now. If it didn't get picked up straight away it'd probably get flagged up when I tried to MOT it, or, God forbid, if I ever had an accident they'd declare it illegally registered. I'll look into the SVA situation. My brother, Brock, keeps telling me it's the way to go & not as tough to pass as it's made out to be -same as ByzMax says about the trike MSVA. I'd rather be completely legit & not have to worry about being pulled.
It'll be a challenge to build to the regulations!

If you change the body style of a car from, say a saloon to a pick up, they will ask for an engineers report. Its been like that for years. I guess to try and stop the ' I chopped the ass off my car and replaced it with a packing crate, now its a pick up' people.
I think building to msva regs is a challenge, but worth it as more people will get picked up at mots and have to re register and sva test their cars.
The points thing is to keep the vehicles identity. You can keep the original plate if you have a certain amount of points, As we only have half the body and some of the chassis that will remain unmolested, I think a Q plate will be on its way! ;D But a Q plate doesnt matter anymore as the dvla are going to try and get all modified vehicles on Q plates eventually. This way everyone involved with the car, mot testers, coppers etc, will know its modified. Not really a bad thing, as the testers will know to look for mods and that they are done safely.

Also when buying a vehicle that's on a Q plate you will be more able to feel confident that it's properly registered.

Q-plate,ive only been offered 3rd party only insurance in the past,might be different now,it was a while ago.
you should have no problem with test mate,from what ive seen and read,you build things properly and safely anyway.

I think I need to find someone who's put a vehicle through the SVA before. Or get hold of a copy of the regs. Really wanted to get the Pop on the road for the Summer.

This is a Good Thing, it really should not be a surprise as the system is getting better all the time, getting a "friendly" MOT tester to ignore changes is also not happening as I believe it once might, as it is now their licence and livleyhood on the line. Furthermore, there are the beginings of dark rumours regarding classic, historic, or just plain old cars being held to a restricted annual milage. All of the forgoing and more points to SVA being the way forward. Now you get the chance to build a "proper" car, re-read all those articles I sent you on chassis design, bin that fifty year old 30 horse chassis and construct something fit for purpose. Join the NSRA, get the manual , contact Kev Rooney and talk it through, he's the premier available source of accurate information and would seem to be keen to promote proper builds. You've made such a cracking good start on it , it would be a shame to waste it all with substandard underpinnings. Again, as always , this is just an opinion and should be treated as such.


And Happy Christmas to one and all

O.K, let's do it!

sounds good 2 me!!
u should always listen 2 your big bro Andy!!

I always do -eventually.

 ;)

Loony's still plugging away at the sheet metalwork on the cab back. Getting there.  :)

The two cab back corners are now in place, with filler strips added. The right-hand bottom corner was rotten so that's also been replaced with fresh metal.

On either side, towards the front of the roof, are what look like factory made roof joints. These were filled with lead, (the fore runner of modern body filler). We can't weld to that so it all had to come out. Easiest way was to melt it out with the oxy-acetelane torch. That's my car you're setting fire to Loony!  :o

Pops were originally fitted with a vinyl roof insert. This is a 1953 car & steel was in short supply after the war, so Ford used a vinyl panel, stretched over wooden spars as a steel-saver. The first thing modern Pop customisers do is replace that with fresh steel, usually taken from the roof or bonnet of a newer car. We thought my roof had been very nicely filled, but once we started digging into the thick layer of filler around the gutter line, we discovered the new panel had been laid over the original roof edge & the resulting step smoothed out with filler.
After some discussion, we've decided to take a deep breath & cut it back out, set it in flush with the roof & weld it back in. It needs a bit of bashing anyway cos it's a completely flat panel, whereas the roof curves across it's width. We'll probably add some curved steel strips under it to help keep it's shape & add extra strength.  

At that point we thought, bugger it, might as well sand all the paint off so we can see just what we're dealing with.
Cue Taz the crazy lady. Give her an angle grinder & a sanding disc & she'll sand anything that stands still long enough.   :P The workshop was soon filled with billowing clouds of filler dust.

Cough, cough, splutter.
Where'd everybody go?

The sensible ones had all buggered off outside.
Long nights working in the garage on yer hotrod. I love it.

By the time we've finished, there'll be very little original Pop tin left! The doors both need lower repair panels & the firewall will be cut out & rebuilt to accomodate the Rover V8 powerplant. Only standard area left is the windscreen surround -& even that's been lowered by 3 inches.

Loony usually works on VWs & had a couple of camper van repair panels in the workshop.
Hmm. I really like these. I don't want just a plain home-made looking box on the back. It deserves something with a little more shape & style. How about a pair of these, set back in about 6 inches narrower than the cab back to show off it's curvy rear? Add a tube frame along the top edge, so the panel curves inwards at the top to mimic the roof line. I'd like a flat ledge maybe 2 inches wide around it with an inner skin, rather than just a single panel thickness. The pick-up bed doesn't have to extend down to the bottom of the panel, just sit onto the rear chassis rails, with outriggers holding the bottom edge of the panels.
The wheel's a spare for the boys' trike, sat in an old tyre from Loony Senior's Pontiac. Not what I'm fitting but looks kinda cool anyway. I'm going for 50s style tall n skinny truck tyres on painted 16 inch steel rims.
I reckon I can use these camper van rear arch panels with the wheels sat outboard of them, covered with black powder-coated ally cycle guards.

Of course, we could go pro-street instead?

Can't wait to fire this up & go cruising!

looks fcking brill so far :) and them van panels look kewl as :)

Thanks Gareth  :D
Would be a shame to put all that effort into the cab then waste it by bunging any old box on the back wouldn't it. Not planning on building a show winner, but if we're doing it, we should do it right I think.
Still waiting to hear from the local vehicle inspectorate -if we're very lucky, the finished truck might just need an engineer's report before they'll hand out the logbook. If not it'll have to meet the SVA regs. Either way it'll be as pretty as we can make it. :)

   I like that outer panel, really like it, set it up properly with a set of steels inside and step back, have open wheeled pickups been done to death ? can you be brave enough to be different ? rear corners off of a type two will already be rebated for the tail gate which could be "floating" on cantilevered hidden bottom hinges, deep tunneled '59 Caddy lamps with just the tips protruding, narrow tubs inside with a pair of fuel tanks (one each side ) between the cab and the tub and all covered by the inner skin, all too easy with someone elses toy, what do you have in mind ?  

i want brocks brain :)

   make me an offer mate , we're developing a serious methanol habit and the new motor should be ready to ship in August , everything must go !

i like methanol i used s**t loads of it where i used to work,its a carsonjenic thing :) though so watch it :)

do u do board and lodge ? :)

   sometimes do bored and fractious

Care to do us a sketch of your ideas Brock?
I'm after trad' pick up with enough originality that it doesn't follow the herd, without going too high tech & modern. It's got to be a daily driver too.

   this is proving problematical, I'll play with it some more but every time I get close to something I like I seem to need to add a sort of streamlined teardrop sort of thing to the back edge of the front mudguards, it's all gone kustom on me !
   As an aside I was looking for type 2 panels when I came across this , have fun...

                                http://www.busselecta.com/bus/

 ;D Hours of fun!
Bear in mind the Sherpa axles I've got are about 6 inches wider than the orignal Pop ones & I really don't fancy trying to narrow that front beam, or the rear for that matter. So it's gonna be wheels outside the bodyline -unless you can come up with something prettier?

I called in at Loony's workshop again on my way home from work today. There's really not much I can do on the bodyshell at the moment -it's down to Loony's panel bashing skills to pull it all into shape. So I contented myself with cutting a repair patch ready for him to weld in place, then mocking up the pick up bed to see how it'd look.
These are the VW camper van lower rear repair panels. I think they're about 20 quid each. The actual arch is roughly the same width as the tyres I'll be using so the axle will be set centrally in the arch. I slid the panels into the back of the open cab until the length looked about right. We'd wondered if we could use the camper van rear corners too, but when we tried one we found it's curve was too sweeping -extending the back of the bed almost another foot. Too long. So Mr Lunatic will probably roll a simple tight, single curve around the rear corners & not worry about trying to produce a double curve that sweeps under the bed too.
Loony & I agreed the pick up bed should be roughly the same length as the cab unit &, if possible, slightly shorter than the bonnet. I'd forgotten how long & pointy the Pop nose is. I dug out the relevant panels & propped them in place. The front end measured 120cm. The pick up bed I'd mocked up came to 100. Perfect. That'll make quite a useable load area -roughly 3 foot 6 long by 4 foot wide.
The VW camper floor's also available as a repair panel & has cool, semi industrial looking ribs pressed into it, which would look good.
O.K, so it's nothing stunningly original, but we can make a nice, tidy looking trad' pick up. Maybe it's been done before, I dunno, but it's the first one I've ever done & that's all that matters.  :)
Any opinions?

.

With the Rover V8 in place, we'll probably have to push the front axle forward a tad, but I don't want the front spring perch ahead of the radiator shell -don't want to interrupt that long front panel cos I think that's the defining shape of a Pop.

You gotta love it!! 8)

Ready to go with it when you are matey! :)

   gets very noisy in that tea shop does it ?

Yeah, theres all these noisy buggers welding and grinding and the like! So inconsiderate! ;D

Oi, that's not sugar in me tea, it's grinding dust.  >:(
Nothing worse than gritty cucumber sarnies.
Taz remodelled Loony's office as a tea room, complete with serving hatch, & it seems to have stayed that way. Pops & Pot Noodles. Perfect.

Haven't seen your trike thread updated lately........  in fact I can't even find it!

It's slipped down to page 4 of General Discussion Bobbi.
Don't worry, it's still on the go, just very slowly. I'm dropping some parts off at the powder coaters when they re-open next week. You could do me a favour actually. Is the MSVA guy still posting on the 100% Biker forum? If you still visit there, I need a contact number for him, to check a few points on the trike build.

I'm liking that Manky, liking it lots :D :D :D the only thing that is worrying me about your build is the width of the axles, can you get a picture of her with an axle roughly in place so that I can see what it looks like as 6 inches is a fair bit wider than the old stuff :-\ :-\ :-\

   just as Shaun said, I was trying to find one to measure before posting but I also think you might be in for a little bit of work there

I think we might need to narrow the back axle and dare I say it, it may be easier in the long run to ditch the front axle off the sherpa and buy a new I beam or drop tube axle. Im worried that it will ride too high on the front as we can only kick the frame up so high and the axle has no drop in it at all. And no you cant have any pics of the axles in place cos we buried them down the side of the shop behind the remenants of the pop!

If Mr Lunatic's at his workshop over the weekend I'll try & get over there to dig an axle out from it's hiding place under a small mountain of car parts. 6 inches wider means only 3 inches wider each side, so not hugely oversize compared to the original. I'd still like to go with the disc braked Sherpa front beam if possible -a new drop tube jobbie seems a needless expense really. I was trying to recycle all the bits I've got knocking about if I can. 

Ill be there. We will be painting though.
The only problem I see is that by my estimates the chassis will have to be at least 18" off the floor to use the sherpa axle hung below it. Then with the channel and the engine in I reckon the engine down to the exhaust headers will have to stick through the bonnet. Or if you mount the spring behind the axle and end the chassis before the axle you may have to run the engine so far back that you dont fit in the cab! Just my worries. ;D

I don't go to 100% these days but had a look just for you, and yes, Chris 'MSVA Tech' is still posting there.  There's no contact number that I can see tho it does say the contact number is in issue 60, if anyone has kept all theirs - mine all went went I had a clearout.

There's so much useful info in the very long MSVA thread that you should really go there yourself cos most of what you want to know has prolly already been covered.

Hmm, a bit of measuring's called for I think.
Just checked my post -I've got a letter from the DVLA, telling me to drive my Pop to their Wimbledon office for inspection in 2 week's time! No answer on their phoneline so I've emailed them, pointing out that's not going to be possible cos it's in a million pieces undergoing restoration. I await their reply with interest.  :-\

Thanks Bobbi. Guess I'll have to steel myself to go back, though I swore I wouldn't. I need to know what type of brakelines are allowed & whether there's an age limit on tyres, as I get different opinions from everyone I ask.

Just go back as 100%hater or something ;D

chris number 01179542544

   by the time Grizz turned up this afternoon it was too wet, cold and dark to measure his axle, but parked next to the transit there didn't look to be much difference, I can put my spare Pop axle across the floor of the transit so I gues there is a bit more than 6" difference between them. Rear axles are narrowed all the time, a lot of early style dragsters use them, there's a fella in Birmingham that I can get a number for if you want a "race spec." job, front axles are also dropped with some frequency but you might want a bit of experience behind you before trying it, the HAMB have some good threads showing the jigs etc used. There is however, nothing stopping you building your own tube front axle and fitting all the Sherpa stuff to it, machine two king pin carriers the same size as the Sherpa axle ends and weld them in to a straight or dropped tube, probably a better option in the long run as you can place your batwings and spring hangers where they need to be rather than where dictated by the original, also give you the chance to set the camber and caster (KPI) to suit.

Isn't all that sort of stuff in the manual?

What manual?

Jeez, that's complicated Brock. Have I taken on more than I can handle?

  No, you've made a blinding start, it's just that now you need to make intelligent informed desicions about how you go forward, that means actually reading and understanding all that stuff I send you rather than just glancing at it and hoping for the best  ;). None of it is really that difficult in isolation it just seems a bit daunting as a whole, it is , after all, a complete car you are building from the ground up, a stack of stuff to be built or sourced and nailed together in something like the right shape. You're not the first to do it ( or reach that first realisation that it's a little bigger than you first thought) and the information is out there. Once again, join the NSRA and make use of their experience. I guess you might know my opinion on the chassis and that is one of the fundamental choices you need to make early on, so do it, then take a week out thinking about it. Take photos in profile of the body, wheels , bed sides, motor etc, take them all from the same distance (use a tape measure) and get down level with the bits for a true profile, then cut them all up and assemble the bits on a clean sheet of paper, get comfortable with what you are actually aiming for and when it's right scale the critical dimensions, axle centres, firewall,bed length, ground clearance etc. Do the same front and rear and get a feel for axle and bed width, all of this will start to plot your chassis which after all is just a way of holding all the bits in the right order. Give me a ring or come over sometime, I'll be the one sat in the truck wondering if 18 months into it, I might have taken too much on.

Sorry Andy  :-[ I opened a can of worms. Its just that the rear of your pickup looks so right in the mock-up's
with the rear wheel sitting close to the pickup sides, move that out 3 or 4 inches and it may make the pickup bed look a little narrow. but until you mock it up its only a thought.
If you narrowed the Sherpa rear axle and ran the Pop front axle fitted with spitfire disc's on a suicide perch just behind the grill similar to this I think it would work as this guy has a V8 fitted and this is using a standard chassis.

The MSVA Manual

Sorry, this is nothing to do with the Pop, it was about the trike!

 ;D Just thinking aloud at this stage Shaun & trying various options.
The Sherpa axles were intended for the '27 T hotrod body I had last year, which never got anywhere because getting it registered for road use looked nigh on impossible. I'm told getting a Pop pick-up through the commercial vehicle SVA is a much more realistic proposition. It'd be nice to use the Sherpa bits just because they're already there, but it's not the end of the World if we can't make 'em fit.
I had a quick measure up at Loony's workshop today. The Sherpa axles are much wider than I thought. Not sure where I'd got my measurements from or whether I'd just made 'em up, but the original Pop front beam measures 47" between the hub faces. The Sherpa's a massive 62", so 7" wider each side. As I'm not going to run the original wings I don't have to worry about fitting the wheels inside them, which means I can go a little wider, but not that much.  
The Pop rear axle's 47" as well, while the Sherpa's 58".
Narrowing the Sherpa rear axle shouldn't be beyond us if we can do it with a Reliant one. You're right, the wheels need to sit close to the pick-up sides, which means we need to lose roughly the width of the tyres from either side of the axle.
Loony & I mused whether the Pop front beam would be up to the job. I know they're regularly used in drag racing but drag cars don't do a lot of cornering or heavy braking do they. Think I'll ring Pop Browns or Pop Parts Plus & see what they recommend.
I can't use the VW camper panels to mock up the pick-up bed now cos Loony's gone & welded 'em to a camper.  >:( Think I'll definitely go with a pair of those though. The ribbed camper van floor panel I liked turned out to be something like 120 quid, but Loony's parts catalogue shows a universal ribbed floor panel which would do the job for sensible money. Could use it for the cab floor too.    

Bobbi, the MSVA manual's a bit vague in all the places we need it to be specific- it says only that the examiner must check the brake lines for "unsuitable joint fittings". It doesn't say what they should or shouldn't be. There's also no mention of tyre age. A lot of the potential pitfalls I've heard of are just word of mouth. I need to speak to someone who can give me a definitive answer. ByzMax has put a couple of trikes through the test I believe, but I can't get hold of him.
I'll try Chris, the tester who posts on the 100% forum, during office hours on Monday.

Didn't mean to throw water on the fire mate, just a concern thats all ;) Grizz thinks the Pop front end is man enough for what we want to do, that is good enough for me ;D ;D ;D ;D

Shaun & Brock -is this Kev Rooney, the NSRA guy who's on the consultation committee of the SVA group?
I took this pic at Hayling Island last year.

yup ;D ;D

Emailed him yet Shauny?
I called in at Valley Gas Speed Shop in Newbury, Berks this afternoon. I was dropping off some trike parts at the powder-coaters next door. Anyway, I wandered in to ask Jimmy's advice on axles. Nice guy. He happily spent the best part of an hour talking chassis, beams, engine mounts, axle ratios etc, with a complete novice, with no sale at the end of it. He reckons the Sherpa rear axle gearing will be fine. One of his customers is running a standard. original Pop front beam in conjunction with a big block Chevy motor with no problems at all. Then he gave me the number of a local guy who's selling a complete Pop front set up, including split wishbones, with disc brake conversion. A complete bolt-in unit. Only problem is he wants 300 quid for it. About twice what I'd want to pay, but then how much would I spend uprating my own bits?

I rang the chap with the disc braked Pop bits today. He lives about 15 miles from Basingstoke where I work. He's Jan Summerville, a drag racer of some repute, who's the guy with the big block Chevy engined car. The Pop set-up was in his race car -he's swapping it for a dropped tube axle, which is why it's for sale. Included in the price is a pair of "Centreline" style wheels & tyres, which I won't need, so I'm going to see him on Friday to take a look & haggle a price, (I'm cr*p at haggling  :().

I rang the DVLA this afternoon & spoke to the woman who sent me the "we want to inspect your vehicle" letter.
They're not happy that I'm "restoring" a vehicle which doesn't have a VIN number stamped on it's chassis & has lost it's body mounted VIN plate. I've got no way of proving to their satisfaction that the car I've got is actually the one the number plates came from. The Pop's now listed on their computer as a scrapped vehicle. Bugger.
So it's SVA time for the Pop. PantherShaun already knows Kev Rooney, who was on the consulting committee when the regs were drawn up & is a keen rodder himself. If anyone can guide me through the red tape he can. So I'm waiting for an introduction from Shaun & Kev's phone number.
I'm clinging to the hope that, as I've been told, commercial vehicle, (i.e pickup), SVA is far easier to pass than the car equivalent, due to the bus, coach, taxi & lorry companies lobbying far louder for exemptions than the custom & kit car boys did.
If the Pop's going to become a Q plated new vehicle then I may as well buy a 350 quid basic chassis package from Valley Gas Speed Shop & do the job properly. This is supposed to be a budget build & it's already creeping towards the total I wanted to spend, but with luck, at the end of it, I'll have a totally legit "new" car, which won't need MOTing for 3 years & will withstand any inspection of it's paperwork. 

you been PM'd manky ;) ;)

PM safely received Shaun. Many thanks. ;)

Taz & I drove to Thatcham in Berkshire this evening to see a man about a Pop axle. I was given his phone number by Jimmy of Valley Gas Speed Shop. It was a standard Pop axle fitted with disc brakes.
No good for us unfortunately cos it had Centreline wheels fitted on spindle mounts -one large centre nut to hold the wheel on, rather than the usual circle of 4 or 5 nuts. The discs actually bolt to the back of the wheel instead of to the hub, so that when you take the wheel off the disc comes off with it. I want to use my taxi cab rims, so would have to make up some kind of adaptor to either mount my taxi wheels to his spindle mounts or his discs to my wheels. Either way it was more expense & work than it was worth, so we gave the axle a miss.
Worth the hour's drive to get there though cos the guy turned out to be Jan Summerville & his Pop's the red, big block powered one pictured on the cover of Custom Car a couple of months ago doing an amazing wheel stand off the line at the HotRod Drags at Avon Park. It wasn't wearing the Pop beam at the time, but a straight tube axle, which bent on landing, as did the front chassis legs. Jan's sorted them both now in time for another season's racing. Interestingly, his Pop's running a boxed standard Pop chassis. I got to have a sit in the driver's seat. Must be a scary thing to drive!   

ya mankiness i have a spare standard pop front axle yours for £10.00 thats what it cost me if you can collect (doncaster) or if not in a hurry could bring to billing    ron

I've still got my original one at the moment, but my brother Brock asked if I had a spare for his drag car. So yup, will take you up on the offer Sir. Thank you.

and if you don't want it Manky I'll take it ;D ;D

ok mankey first if not panthershaun  pm to sort out   ron

I'll ask Brock to get in touch with you.  ;)

We've decided to use the standard Pop front axle & steering set-up, but move the transverse spring from ahead of the beam to directly above it, to shorten the nose of the chassis & fit everything in behind the grille. I've borrowed a similar set-up from my mate Richard at Valley Gas Speed Shop so we can measure up for the new chassis more accurately. Picked it up this morning & Loony, PD & I spent the evening mocking up the Pop & working out dimensions. Taz was on coffee & Pot Noodle duty.  :)

6" of ground clearance under the cab will give us about 4" under the front grille. The frame needs to be Z'ed at either end to kick it up to clear the rear axle & meet the front spring. 20" off the deck at both ends.
PantherShaun's chatted to Kev the SVA guy & he reckons that to get the Pop through a commercial pick-up SVA, the pick-up bed needs to be longer than the interior of the cab. Apparently that's to discourage people from nailing a window box sized bed on the back of their rods to sneak through. This is maybe a little longer than I first planned, but it'll comply.
We'd assumed we'd need to narrow the Sherpa rear axle, but once we tried it in place, it looks spot on. Result. :)
Note the Reliant cylinder head propping up the rear panel!

We've pushed the front axle as far forward as we can to give more room to shoehorn the engine in. The inner wings have gone to give more room for that V8 -& also cos I just like the look. 

thats looking bloody good mate, so how much wider does the Sherpa axle look compared to the pop front? I may try and source a Sherpa axle to fit mine than I can use the Taxi wheels and only get wheel adapters for the front.

thats looking the bis :)

Thanks guys. Hoping to order up the new chassis tomorrow. Valley Gas are building a Gasser Pop at the moment so some of the basic measurements can be taken from the rails for that. The rest will be scribbled on a bit of paper by us -"build us a chassis round that lot please mister".
We weren't too concerned about axle width for the purposes of measuring for the chassis so didn't actually compare Sherpa to Pop, but it looked O.K, maybe just a couple of inches wider overall. Richard's Pop front axle's been fitted with adapted spring perches that relocate the spring directly over the beam. He had a new shorter bottom spring leaf made by a blacksmith for 12 quid. He's also fitted Morris Marina hubs so he can run disc brakes. I'd like to do something similar with mine. Only problem is, that gives you a 4 bolt stud pattern, rather than the Sherpa's 5, so you'd need adaptors, which would probably bring the front axle width out to match the rear.

i thought sherpa's had disks on the front?

They do, but the Sherpa front axle's way wider than we want & is a very heavy cast beam. Doesn't look easy to narrow & has no means of fitting a transverse spring. I was going to try & use it cos I thought the Pop one would be too lightweight for a Rover powered car, but everyone I talk to says it'll be fine -loads of rod & drag car drivers use 'em.

ar right then back to the plot

   just out of interest, have you pulled the Sherpa hub apart to check bearing sizes and spacing ?

Aha! Now there's an idea that hadn't occurred to me, (very few ideas do). I'm told there isn't a disc set up that'll bolt straight onto a Pop axle -they all require some degree of machine work. So using the Sherpa hub & retaining the same bolt pattern front & back would be a good thing.

Not what I've been told Manky :o Triumph spitfire hubs are apparently a straight swap, all you need is a spacer turned up to locate the hub on the spindle and fit inside the oil seal :P

all you need is a spacer turned up to locate the hub on the spindle and fit inside the oil seal

-isn't that "some degree of machine work"?

OK OK you win birthdayboy  ::) ::) :P :-*

 ;) :P

triumph herald discs swap straight over using pop inner bearing and herald outer or using a small backing spacer viva go on or cortina mk3 will fit using a small stepped spacer behind and under the rear bearing if memory serves me but all will need a caliper mount fabricating   phew that was a lot of brain matter to remember as havnt done one for years

   pretty much what I thought, they all seem to need at least one spacer or stepped sleeve so might it make sense to keep the stud pattern common and look into using what you have, no idea if it will work just interested really 

Precisely. I've got a Sherpa axle sat outside Loony's workshop. I haven't got a set of Marina, Cortina or Herald hubs about my person. So it makes sense to recycle what I've got, if they're gonna need as much machining as anything else.

check out this link, you may have already seen it but it is very helpful.

http://www.flatheadv8.freeserve.co.uk/martsframes.htm

 ;D ;D

the link doesn't take you straight in, after the home page, go to index and look at the bottom right hand list and you will see a picture of old rusty, under that is the link to Unfinished Pop, try page 6 on that link.

phew :P :P

Interesting.
Measured up the axles today. Richard's front Pop beam, with Marina hubs & 4 bolt wheels, (Wolsey maybe), is 53 inches wide from outside edge to outside edge of the tyres.
My Sherpa rear axle's 64 inches. The extra width looks right though cos the bodywork curves out from the front -the nose of a Pop's very narrow once you take the big flared arches off. The Sherpa front axle was definitely too wide though.
Today Taz, Lunatic & I drove over to Valley Gas Speed Shop in Newbury, Berks, clutching a scrap of paper with a few scribbled measurements. Amazingly, Jimmy actually seemed to think he could build us a chassis from that. Should be ready within the next two weeks.  ;D

hi,
easy way to mount axle under spring on a pop is to use model y spring perches.
gasser style!!!!

Great! Got any about your person?

PantherShaun called in at Loony's workshop yesterday & carted off my old original Pop chassis for his own pick-up project. So now I'm committed to new rolling gear. I'm chassisless until Valley Gas knock up the new box section rails for me.
Spent a few minutes at my lock-up in Basingstoke after work today & got the Rover motor fired up & running. Sounds awesome with the roar of the open Range Rover headers bouncing off the walls! Everyone should have a V8 sat in the garage -just to fire up when things aren't going so smoothly. Instant grin inducer.  ;D

I've got some of that on video from Tuesday ;D ;D ;D ;D can let you have it if you beg :P :P :P

Please, please, please!
Can't really post it here as video clips take up a hell of a lot of room on the site, but if you can host it elsewhere, (YouTube?), you can post the link to it here.

here you go mate, hope this goes someway to appeasing my appalling behavior on another thread :-[ :-[

sorry about the commentary by the p1**head at the start >:(

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=z0RTqZDSuDU

oooo thats well nice :)

Fired it up again this afternoon. Burst into life with the first touch of the wires on the battery terminals & ticked over very nicely. Collect the new chassis from Valley Gas Speed Shop next week, bung the motor in & nail the body on & away we go -I wish. Definitely given my enthusiasm for the project a big boost though. Can't wait to start putting it together now.
My lock-up's usually very quiet, tranquil even. It's quite pleasant to tinker with the trike there on a Summer's afternoon. Although it's in a service yard behind a row of shops on a council estate, it's normally deserted. Not the day Shaun turned up though. Shaun, Loony & myself, plus a bunch of builders remodelling one of the shops, plus 2 guys from neighbouring garages, plus some drunk from the pub next door who thinks he's an expert on engines. The rumble of the Rover motor seemed to draw them all in. It's the drunk guy you can hear advising us to rev it more at the start of that clip. However you can also hear Loony telling me not to rev it too much cos the flames from the open exhausts were firing straight onto the plastic fuel can!
Safety at all times people.  :P

   my favorite bit is when you have battery, fuel can, jump leads etc all balanced on top of it and at the first touch of the throttle it falls over

Obviously only a fool would start an engine up without first ensuring it's properly secured.
Ahem. :P

Called in at Loony's workshop this afternoon. He's picked up a couple of sheets of 18/20 gauge steel to create the rest of the cab back with. Will take a lot of work to create the double curve of the corners, but should look good when it's done.
We arrived to find the cab laying on it's side. Had Loony been racing it round the yard & found it doesn't corner too well without wheels? Nope, he'd rolled it over to take a better look at the sills. It's a tribute to the bracing we put in at the start that the body could be upended like that & still stay in shape & intact. Unfortunately the bottom few inches of the shell are pretty rotten. The last 6 inches of the door skins are full of filler which has bubbled & lifted, & the A panels are in bad shape.
The curves aren't easy to replicate so it's time to buy in a couple of repair pieces. A pair of A panels, (the bit in front of the door, including the lower hinge mount. I think Shaun's already changed this bit on his own project), plus a pair of door repair sections, (the bottom 6 inches).
Loony's decided to ditch the original sills as well & make up new, more slimline ones. I can't wait to just be able to open the door & sit inside the shell. :) 

.

Only on the drivers side, Grizz made up his own repair section ;D ;D

No real progress to report yet. I ordered a pile of bits from "Pop Parts Plus" & collected them from their stall at the NSRA swapmeet in Essex at the weekend. I've now got all the window window mechanisms & door latches, as well as a pair of A post repair sections & the repair panel for the passenger door. They're re-tooling at the moment & won't be able to supply the driver's door panel for a week or so. I also picked up a pair of repro '32 Ford exterior door handles.
Loony's got a couple of other customer's cars to work on but hopefully the Pop bodyshell will be a lot more solid by the time Valley Gas Speed Shop get the new chassis sorted.
I had a quick chat to Kev of the SVA consultation committee at the swapmeet. He reckons if I can find proof of the Rover engine's age I only have to conform to the emmisions regs for that year, which will be a bonus.

.

them pre molding bits look dead handy :) is that lunatics bsa? luv the helmet :)

The German helmet makes the piercing in his nose look like a Hitler moustache!
Yup, that's the Beezer. A little Bantam. Not sure what size but it don't matter cos it's buggered.
He & PD can't decide what to do with it. PD's also got a modern trailie which they blat up & down the yard on -hence the helmet.
The bottoms of my Pop doors consist almost entirely of filler & fibreglass so the repair panels will give us 6 inches of fresh steel in there.

Woo hoo! My new chassis' almost done!
I know it doesn't look much but this is the skeleton on which the whole car will hang, so it's a pretty big deal really. We haven't got the facilities, or the floor space, to build this ourselves & get it totally flat & square. Cost 500 quid, which everyone tells me is a good price. I'm happy.
This is the back end.

Very impressive!

What's the reason for one side being longer than the other?

The ends of the frame legs need cutting off to length & there's a spring perch to be added to the front & that's about it. The rest is down to us.
The engine will sit between the front kicked up rails, with the mounts bolted to the inside edge of the rail, rather than sitting on top of it.
The front kick up will start just inside the footwell of the cab & the back will do the same so that the rear rails come out about halfway up the back of the cab body.
There's a 12 inch kick up at the rear of the chassis & a bit less at the front, meaning the body should sit about 6 inches off the deck. This isn't the full width of the car. The chassis runs straight down the centre of the vehicle, tapering out slightly towards the back -we'll weld on outriggers to bolt the outer edges of the bodywork to. Tomorrow I'm heading back to Valley Gas Speed Shop to pay the bill, then one of their employees, Richard, who lives in Basingstoke, will deliver it for me on his way home from work in his Transit van.

Valley Gas is run by Jimmy & his good lady Elle. They're building her a replica '27 track T, (a fibreglass bodied 2 seater roadster). The chassis rails are built from channel that's been specially laser cut with Maltese crosses down it's entire length.

Lovely looking mark 4 Zephyr starting to take shape in the workshop. The guys are rushing to get 2 customers' cars ready for WheelsDay in 2 week's time.

I'll have one of these please. Don't bother wrapping it, I'll take it with me now. ;D

Another Dodge Charger. Common as muck ain't they!  ;D

.

And I thought you were going low ::) ::) :-*

Well we all know what a blokes 6 inches is compared to a womans  :P

Right. The shiny new chassis was safely delivered to Lunatic's secret country lair, free of charge, thanks to Richard of Valley Gas & his trusty rusty Tranny van. Thanks mate. Unfortunately Loony's workshop was full so it had to sit out in the rain. I'll slap a temporary coat of red oxide on it all to keep the rust bugs at bay -it'll be shot-blasted off before the final powder-coat's applied.
So we had a bit of a measure up.

Richard just happens to have a Pop front axle that's been converted from having the spring mounted across the front of the beam, to being mounted directly over it. That shortens the front of the chassis set-up & means we can shoe-horn it all inside the original Pop body panels.
So we nicked it for a while.
When we came up with the chassis dimensions a lot of it was guesswork -we won't really know what we need till we start putting things together. The ride height's supposed to be around 6 inches to the underside of the rails but here it sits at more like 10.

Valley Gas tack-welded a spring perch on the front cross member for us, but we suspected it'd need moving so it wasn't fully welded. We weren't sure how much the spring would compress with the weight of a V8 Rover motor on it. No problem. Lunatic's got one of his own sat in the corner of the workshop.
So we nicked it for a while.
Maybe the mounts need a little work.  ;D

Didn't make as much difference as we'd thought. The ride height dropped by around an inch. O.K, we'll lift the spring mount then, which'll drop the chassis. Sorted. Jimmy at Valley Gas set the perch at around 4 degrees, which is necessary for proper suspension movement. We're thinking maybe cut the cross member & Z it -lift it by the depth of the tube, so the bottom edge is level with the top edge of the chassis, then fill in the sides with angled tube pieces. Does that make sense? Anyway, that'll raise the spring mount by 80mm, (just over 3 inches), & drop the chassis by the same amount. Using a spring with the mounting eyes curling upwards instead of downwards, ("reversed eye"), will add another inch & bring us down to the 6 inch ride height we're after.

Onto the back end then.
We're using a Sherpa axle, a favourite with rod & race car builders. They're strong enough to take the 3 & a 1/2 litre Rover power & come in several ratios. Sherpa actually fitted some of their vans with Rover V8 motors. The back end's easier to drop. Suspension will be courtesy of a pair of coil over shocks, mounted from a cross member above the axle, with sideways & fore & aft movement controlled by triangulated 4 bar linkages. One of the simplest systems to build & set up properly.
The finished wheelbase will be 115 inches.

We scribbled a shopping list & trundled back to Valley Gas Speed Shop.
Jimmy & the guys, (& the lovely Elle of course), are genuinely helpful & happy to sit with a pair of ammateurs like Loony & I, (we're first time hotrod builders), & go through the various options with us.
We came home with the box section tubing for the rear shock mounting cross member, as well as the gearbox mounting cross member, as well as a big pile of assorted ready-made brackets. At about 3 quid each, simple tab mounts are hardly worth the trouble of making ourselves. Jimmy even threw in a pair of 4 bar mounts they'd just cut off a new model A chassis for free. Top chap.
We also ordered a complete new front leaf spring after we found one in his suppliers catalogue of exactly the size we needed. 50 quid. Also on the list was a pair of new spring shackles, bushes & mounting bolts. Should be here in a week or so.

Mr Manky came over this afternoon and cut all the lugs off the sherpa back axle, then ground them flush. Thats it really!

sorta sat down on the job again then :)

Hotrod's Hotrod's I chuffing love Hotrod's  ;D ;D ;D forget the trike mankey lets have a race to build a modified ;D ;D ;D

Got to ask, what wheels are they on the front mate?? ??? :P :-*

Not sure -Wolsley maybe. I'll check with Richard. Marina hubs.
I've got 2 trikes & a Pop to build & getting nowhere with any of 'em! You think I need another project! :P

They say it's better to travel hopefully than to arrive................

Loony & I took another trip to Valley Gas Speed Shop in Newbury, Berks this afternoon & picked up the components for the Pop suspension. No I'm not going to tell you how much this lot cost. A very small box of bits with a very large price tag. Loony & I bet each other how much it'd cost on the way there. Unfortunately I won.
The original, very optimistic budget for this build was around the thousand quid mark for a motor built on the original chassis with Ford Consul power. That's now been upgraded to about 3 grand for basically a brand new car, on a new tailor made chassis, with V8 Rover power. To put it in prospective, that's still half the cost of my second hand Fiesta.

Brand new front transverse leaf spring with reversed mounting eyes, new spring shackles & hangers, with new bottom shock absorber mounts.

Lovely shiny new Gaz adjustable coil-over shocks with 160 pound springs. Plus enough tube for the triangulated 4 bar linkage with threaded weld-in bosses & rose joints & spacers for front & rear linkages.
A complete suspension set-up.

Nice

very, very nice ;D ;D do those new spring mounts put the spring over the axle then Manky??

Yeah. We borrowed a similar set-up from Richard, one of the Valley Gas guys, to measure up for the chassis. It brings the front spring back by 3 or 4 inches & means we can keep everything tucked inside the original Pop bodywork, even though we're running the V8 instead of the little Ford sidevalve. The other option would've been to mount the spring perch through the front of the radiator grille as a lot of the American rat rods do, but I didn't want to break the line of that long Pop nose cos I think that's it's defining shape -one of the features that make it instantly recognisable as a Pop.

To put it in prospective, that's still half the cost of my second hand Fiesta.

    prospective ?

         ???

          ;)

Did I write that?! Shame on me. PERspective.

Spent the afternoon at Lunatic's workshop today, measuring things, trying ideas & generally buggering about. We decided the ride height was still too high, so we had to raise the front spring mount in order to lower the body. Easiest way was to attack my new 500 quid chassis with a grinder & cut out the front cross member, (having first braced the rails with a length of old angle iron). The cut section was then raised by an inch & a half & tacked back in. We'll add triangular gussets either side of it once we know it's in the right place. 

.

Yes, we know the axle's in back to front here but the ride height's the same which is all we were worried about.

The masking tape under the centre of the chassis is the finished height of the sills. About 6 inches off the road, which is what we were after. Mind you, it'll be less with two people & a V8 motor in it. Hope we've got it right!

The rad shell will be a couple of inches higher than this but you get the general idea.

Nice!

bloody brill ;D

like the stance ;D

Loony's or the car's? :)
I'm hoping I can liberate the Austin Chummy seat frames I sold to Loony last year. You can see one in red oxide inside the Pop bodyshell in that pic. They'll make cool bomber style seats. The top of the chassis rails will be the floor level of the cab. The prop shaft tunnel should end up about 5 inches tall between the seats. There's actually a lot more room in the cab than we first thought.  ;D

U  mean u can turn your Head both ways  ;D

Yup. Should even be able to turn the steering wheel without opening the window first!

;D

Another quick measure up today & we reckon the top of the carbs should be just about level with the bottom of the windscreen, so maybe just poking through the bonnet. If that's the case I might swap the twin SUs for a 4 barrel Holley & do the job properly with 4 velocity stacks up in front of the screen.
I've had a week off work &, as usual, achieved bugger all. I've got an hour's commute between home & Marcus' workshop, (only takes 45 minutes when I'm going to work at 5 in the morning). By the time I've done a few odds & ends at home & got organised enough to get going, it's lunchtime before I get there. Had to nip over to Valley Gas for some more box section today to make an extra cross member behind the cab & some gussets for the front cross member. That was another couple of hours gone.
Some more measuring & we able to add the first mounting tabs to the back axle. These will take the rose jointed bottom rods of the 4 bar linkage. They'll run parallel to the ground & connect to the chassis at the bottom of the rear kick up. Ideally the propshaft should run up to the axle by between 2 & 4 degrees for unhindered suspension movement, hence the magnetic angle finder on the diff.

Called in at Loony's workshop again this afternoon. Another day of running to & fro, so not much time, but enough to cut out some gussets to strengthen the reworked front cross member. Then Loony glued 'em in place.

And a fine job they n you did it looks well m8 but better get a move on or they will change the laws again to stop rods being on their pristine roads

Yeah I know. New SVA regs due next year -European harmony & all that. So I've got to get this sorted & on the road this year. Two trikes & a pick-up to get built & registered. No more projects!

Yeah :o righto mate ;)

Well, no more for this year anyway.

.....maybe. :P

Seriously, if I couldn't get the Pop registered for some reason, I'd still push on & build it & just take it drag racing instead. The latest round of SVA/TUV/MOT stuff sounds pretty scary but I prefer to live in hope, (maybe it's blind optimism, I dunno). The modified car & bike market's worth a fortune in this country -not just the custom crowd but the hothatch boys, the dayglo sports bike riders, the restoration chaps & everyone else. Lots of peers of the Realm pootling round the countryside in vintage motors & performance car owners with lots of cash & therefore lots of clout. Would they really let Parliament kill off the whole scene?
Yeah, they probably would, but I'm hoping there'll still be loopholes & clauses we can exploit.
Lots more things I want to build yet!

I know what you mean  :-\ but we have to live in hope  ;D and as you say most of the most powerful people in the country and no I don't mean the Queen or that muppet the PM drive around in Vintage cars or campaign some serious vintage specials so they may push to keep our life style alive :-*

Loony & I stripped down my Pop front axle today. Scraped off 55 years of gunge & thought about how we're going to mount it on the new chassis.
It'll hang on the new transverse spring in the same way the original did & be located by a radius rod on either side. The original used a short wishbone set-up. We've cut the cast ends off, that attach to the front beam, & will create extended arms using the rear ones. They'll end in rose joints attached to the chassis near the bulkhead.

you could try welding  a vertical U section on the end of the small bit you chopped off drilled for top and bottom bushes or rose joints and then fitting a four bar setup with a transverse bar from frame to axle for stability and if not using the front and or rear oval tubes can i have them to make some old school springer forks pretty please

 :)
We like the old school radius arm set-up Ron, & the idea of recycling parts of the original car -especially because it doesn't cost anything! You're welcome to the shorter original wishbone oval tubes but I guess they're too short? Not sure if Shaun's using his rear ones or not.

the short ones i can use for short (bobber) springers and if shaun has a pair of rears i can make a pair for my chop can collect em when shabby comes down for body panels

No problem. We'll try not to weld them to anything then.  :)

are these any help.

(http://www.dropshots.com/photos/64941/20041128/135446.jpg)

(http://www.dropshots.com/photos/64941/20051203/160100.jpg)

Are they up for crabs Chris? maybe we can do a deal ;)

Madron, I'm afraid I'm hanging on to all my bits at the moment until the beast is built, then some of the bits may be up for grabs but I do see a modified on the horizon ::) ::) ;D

Hey! Poacher! Think Manky gets first dibs on it as it's in his thread  :P

S'O.K Hon. We've got all the parts to build our own set up. Just a couple of questions Chris:
Why are your modified radius arms angled inwards? Your chassis looks narrower than mine, (we're planning on sitting the Rover motor down lower between the rails than yours).
Are you using the standard Pop spring? We've bought a new replacement from Speedway, 26 inches wide with reversed eyes, which we'll hang on new spring mounts from the original holes on the Pop beam. So the spring will sit diectly over the axle.
Are you trimming the back edge off the spring perch, where it overhangs the back of the front cross member?
How long are your radius arms & where do they attach to the chassis?
What steering box are you using & where does it mount in relation to the ends of the radius arms?
What hubs are you running on that beam?

 i only ask as i have an idea to build oval rear leg springers so i will wait till you have finished your builds and all i ask is you keep me in mind if you have anything left if you trade for other things thats what its all about but if left over rather me than the scrap man gets em lol

Brock's just told me the angled radius arms are to allow extra clearance for the wheels on full lock -maybe we should be checking that!
Also the overhang on the spring perch may have a strengthening gusset underneath it.

Haven't updated you for a while.
Loony & I have been working on the rear suspension. We've gone for the simplest set up we can, namely a triangulated 4 bar with coil over shocks. I bought a bunch of universal mounting tabs, some suitable tube & a handful of rose joints when we picked up the chassis from Valley Gas Speed Shop. We've used those to make a pair of bottom locating bars, attached to the underside of the axle & running parallel to the chassis to mounting bosses welded into the chassis at the base of the rear kick up. Those set the position of the axle along the chassis.
Then we added another pair either side of the top of the diff housing & spreading out to meet the chassis at the top of the rear kick up. These stop the axle from moving sideways.
Neither of us have done this sort of thing before, so we were a bit worried the whole thing would bind or lock up solid under suspension travel. Lifting the chassis off the axle stands & lifting & lowering it proved our worries were unfounded -success!

We used offcuts of box section from the chassis to form some tidy top mounts.

Each bar consists of a length of tube with threaded bosses welded into each end. A right handed thread on one end & a left handed one on the other. That'll let us fine tune the dimensions of the linkages on the final build.
Next job is to mount the shocks themselves -160 pound adjustable Gaz coil overs. The plan is to set the top eye of the shocks up into the box section cross member above the axle.

.

that looks good not long now lol

looking good there manky  ;D

Some photos that were taken today.

.

The pics show our mate Richard's modified Pop front axle on my new spring. No hubs on my own Pop axle yet so Rich's is being used so we can get the chassis up on 4 wheels when needed.
Had a visit from Shabby & madron today -very nice to see you guys - especially as Ron brought along a pair of Vauxhall Viva hubs for me. Thanks matey.
They're Viva HC hubs, (the red bits in the photos). At the moment they've got adaptors to take VW wheels, which we might re-adapt to take the taxi cab wheels. Viva HAs are transverse spring with drum brakes, HBs are independant with drums & HCs are independant with discs I think.
All I need to do is find bearings with an outside diameter to fit the Viva hubs & an inside diameter to fit the Pop spindles. I'll buy a pair of new Viva discs from the local autofactors, but then need to find some suitable calipers.
I've played with the rear cross member & cut out a section either side for the coil over shocks to fit up into. I've also marked out a curved area that needs to be cut out to clear the diff on full suspension travel.

not be long now manky,looks great. many many thanks for pop bits and all, will all get used well ;D ;D

Thanks for clearing our scrap valuable automobile parts.  ;D
Nice to put another face to a forum member. Top chaps, both of you.
Y'all come back real soon now y'hear.

that we will, was a great day  ::)

they will be down again soon now they know the sizes of bolt you used to hold stuff down lol  ;D just phoned Ron he`s knackered and going to bed lol he`s getting to old for all this traveling lol  ;D

Ah but Texon we have already changed the size of the bolts  ;D

coming along nicely guy's, have you got a side on photo of the rolling chassis??

I'll take one tomorrow Shaun. Difficult as there's always cars in front of the workshop door, getting in the way of the shot.

but we posh ; got a socket set lol  ;D :D ;D

yes WE got a socket set we bought it between us  8)

 ;D Ah but we've used car locking ones  ;D

Sorry Shaun, couldn't get a full side shot of the Pop chassis today -some muppet had parked a beat up ol' Consul in the way.

I don't even own this many pairs of Molegrips.
No less than 9 pairs holding the three sections of Postie Dave's new sill together on the Consul.
Should be finished & on our pitch at the Basingstoke show in a couple of weeks time. Hope they get it sorted cos Dave's got to drive it home to Aldershot this evening!

Lunatic's cut out the curved section under the axle cross member for me & cleaned up the top shock mounts. This is how the shocks fit. Next job is to sort out the bottom mounts.

We'll weld the long bracket with the holes in to the underside of the axle, then bolt the L shaped ones either side of it. They need some reshaping to line up with the bottom of the shocks but will form adjustable mounts. The shocks themselves are also adjustable for ride height & rebound, so we should be able to tweak it all until it's just right.

thats moving along at a fine speed m8 bet yer glad Loony and PD are at hand :)

muppet, beat up old consul, oh dear, if any bits get moved on your pop" it was nt me. ;D and fancy leaving doughnuts in the fridge, next time you go madron + shabby check the fridge. ;D

WE DID but thought we would leave some for later ron

BOUGHT  you never buy only BORROW  for ever

Liking it so far, keep us posted.  :)

chassis lookin well cant wait to see body on so get a visual how low its gonna be

I agree with you Ron cant wait but HOW LOW CAN YOU GO looking great Manky 8)

you saw the slug (austin a55 lowrider) used to take cats eyes out if i touched brakes on em lol

6 inches of ground clearance for mine. I work in Basingstoke -land of the roundabout & speed bump, & you've already seen how bumpy the bottom of our garden is, where the Pop will live when it's done. Gotta be reasonably sensible! Well, as sensible as a V8 engined, roof-chopped pick-up truck can be anyway.
Spent a couple of hours in Loonyville today, welding in a fill-in piece under the axle cross member & making it all pretty. It'll never get seen but hey, I'll know it's there.

The shocks sit at the recommended 25 degrees. Next job is to sort the bottom mounts out. Had a text this evening from Loony to say he'd come up with a very simple set up for that. We'll have a look when I go back tomorrow.

   what a coincidence, I also store old rags and thinners under the fab. bench

 ;D
Don't do this at home kids. It was body filler hardener, so marginally less flamable than thinners.

fridge fridge was it bolted down lol

Back at t'workshop after work today.
Loony's shock mount idea will work. A machined block bolted to a vertical plate welded to the axle. Adjustable by moving it up & down a series of holes in the welded plate. The front of the block tapped to take a half inch bolt. The bottom eye of the shock will sit on the unthreaded shank of the bolt. A fairly standard way of mounting shocks on rods I think, but one which hadn't occurred to us. So I need to get the mounting blocks machined up, preferably in stainless, as soon as poss. FLC, are you about?

We've only got 2 weeks to make this look vaguely like a car to show at the Basingstoke Transport Festival. Half the stuff we're showing will be unfinished projects so doesn't really matter how far we get, as long as it's recognisable as a Pop truck. As we've found at the Shepton Mallet bike show, the punters seem to like seeing "works in progress" as well as finished shiny vehicles.
So we thought we'd better bung the body on & just temporarily tack weld it to the chassis for now, (don't want it toppling off onto some passing child or something). Gave us a chance to see how it sits on the new chassis too.

Loony practising his cool cruising stance.
"You wanna race punk? Thunder Road, outskirts of town, 10 minutes".
Trouble is the cab's full of a spidersweb of bracing poles at the moment, so it took 5 minutes of contorting to climb in. Once in though, it's suprisingly roomy. A comfortable amount of head & legroom & Loony's taller than me.

8 inches of clearance under the doors at the moment, but that'll go down to about 6 by the time we've welded the sills on, which is what we originally planned for. The cab's sat on a bracing bar at the back & the firewall at the front so is about 3 inches too far forward. The rear chassis kick up will be hidden inside the cab, behind the seats, so the pick-up bed rails will exit the cab at the higher level.

The Rover V8 motor's roughly 30 inches long from front to back, with another 27 for the auto gearbox. If all goes according to plan, it should sit perectly between the front chassis cross member & the firewall. The gearchange position should be the same as a normal car with a tunnel about 5 inches tall between the seats.

Oh, the bike's a little CJ250 Honda, circa 1978, by the way.
PD's nephew's due to be joining the crew for a couple of week's work experience soon. They plan to give him the 50 quid bike as a project, to do as he wants with, under their guidance. There's talk of a bobber project. Cooler than spending your work experience time serving burgers in McDonalds.

Now that looks great m8 it gets the juices flowing I am going to be starting my pop pickup soon I hope when the council pull their finger out and get some work done I have sent you a pic of how I want to build it Manky because I still cant get owt to load up  ::)

 :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P looking good mate  :-* :-*

Thank you gentlemen.  ;)
Tex, here's your drawing -very good. We'll add it to the "Ideas Sketchbook" part of the Motors section if that's O.K. Looking forward to seeing that one in the flesh!

Shaun, Madron left a wheel hub with us when he visited with Shabby the other day. Give us a shout when you get back from your hols & we'll nip it over to you.
Any progress on your Pop?

looking good andy, its getting me into doing my minor, give us a pm about machining. :)
cj looks nice i had a cb 250 g5 chop when i was a lad good times :)

thats looking almost finished ;D Brock's got the same mounting idea on his axle aint he? looks good Manky and it works :) luv the stance of it oh the joys of aving a garage :) ...nice touch that Loony and PD have given the kid summut to develop..he's a lucky kid :)

nice one texon ,will look sweeeeeeeeet  ;D

Well I got the pic now all i need do is build it I am collecting parts as I type any donations greatfilly received lol I got your old pop seat Manky and a fine patina they are too  ;D if you want to put the pic on the ideas sketchbook no prob I will send you some more I have one I did of a std pop so ppl can have a mess about with it for ideas also I have just drawn one of Ron's Jam Roller but you will have to ask Ron to use that you know what he`s like check avatar MY PRECIOUS  ;D  ;D  ;D

Has Ron been spreading my old Pop parts all over Yorkshire?! You're very welcome mate.  ;)
The more input we get the better so feel free to email us any more artwork you've got.

VB, let's hope it encourages the lad to do something positive -most of the kids I see in Basingstoke can't be bothered to do anything. Start 'em young eh. The boys had a visit from the Health & Safety people to check the premises were trainee-friendly, so much feverish tidying up ensued. Passed with flying colours though.
Brock's been in touch via email to suggest a better way of mounting the shock absorbers. A length of box section, (same as the chassis if we've got enough left), with one face cut off & welded vertically to the axle. A series of holes in the front face for shock mount adjustment, then simply bolt through the eye of the shock into a nut & spring washer behind the box. Very simple but much stronger than flat plate.


3 hole shock mounts (http://www.tperformance.com/street_rod_store/3100/rear_axle_lower_shock-mounting_kits/)

Now thats a good idea maybe with a bit of thought that could be applied to da trikes back end frame mounting cos it would still be removable

Had some errands to do after work today, but managed to cut another cross member to sit behind the cab. Loony's tacked it in place. Not to strengthen the chassis -the thing's built like a tank already -just to give somewhere to bolt the front of the pick-up bed to, as well as the original oval Ford fuel tank, which'll sit in the bed, tucked up against the back of the cab. 
I started cutting out the new design shock mounts, but ran out of time, so will take some piccies tomorrow.

looks really well there manky need to get my finger out too lol ;D

manky you have my permission to print anything texon draws EXCEPT ME  lol

uuuugggghh the thought of it  :-[ Manky did you get the other pics I emailed you

Yup, got the drawings thanks mate. We'll get them online soon -well, Taz will. I'm slowly getting to grips with this techno stuff, but I'm still not confident to do stuff without her being there in case I bugger it up. She's just left for her first carriage driving event of the year & won't be back till Sunday.
For those who don't know, Taz & I live in a cottage on a country estate that comes with her job. She's head groom/stable manager/general dogsbody for Lord Onslow of Surrey. A big part of the job involves looking after & training his carriage driving ponies -Welsh Palominos. They compete in driving events all over the country & she's loading up the horsebox as we speak to head off to Brighton for the first event of the year.  

My day off today, so when I get a minute I'll sand the welds smooth on the shock mounts & drill the holes. We were going to add a series of holes for adjustment, but we'll be putting the shocks on the lowest setting & any adjustment possible would only lift the back of the Pop higher -very '70s but not the look we're after. Loony would like the chassis dragging the road on airbags, but it's got to be reasonably driveable, so we'll stick with one shock position for now. 

.

New chassis cross member, on the left. More for mounting stuff on than for strength.

The body looks deceptively smooth in photos but it's actually still very rough. A lot of work yet to do.

Loony & PD's funky little Bantam project. The motor's shot -I think they said "shot" anyway. Anyone got a replacement they'd like to donate?

pop pickup looking the dog doo dars

I think that was a compliment! Thanks anyway!

that was the best of compliments ;D ;D ;D lol

May know of a Bantam lump will ask.

tis looking a right little lowdown cracker Manky

my mates dad got a few bantam motors will ask him and let you know asap

Coming together nicely I see!

"looking a right little lowdown cracker"

-who? Loony?
I think the boys finances for the Bantam project are a little limited to say the least -maybe a cup of tea & a donut. Maybe they can swap something for an engine? -like, say, PD?
 

Just bought an ally radiator for the Pop from Ebay. 80 quid. Got to collect it from Birmingham now. Well, not right now, but sometime soon.

was watching the rad glad you got it dude  :D ;D :D

Yeah, thanks for the shout on that.  ;)

your welcome if i see anything else will email ya  :D

Took delivery of a set of Rover engine mounts from "Pop Browns" today.
Loony & I spent a couple of hours late this evening finishing & fitting the box section lower shock mounts. Only tack welded on for now. Just need a couple of spacers between the shock & the mount & they're done. We tried out the suspension & it works well but the springs seem a little soft. Valley Gas Speed Shop, who supplied the shocks, do one free exchange of springs so we'll probably uprate them, but will wait till the front suspension's fitted before gauging how much stiffer they need to be.

.

lookin like a roller ;D

Manky were did you get your taxi wheels from I am trying to get hold of a set of 16" but am struggling so any help would be great  ;)

i think madron gave um hime and said"dont tell that Texon guy" ;D

manky can you get a close up picture of the air vent opening especially how the flap mounts on your pop when you get time thanks ron

Will do Ron. I'll take some snaps & measurements tomorrow.
Tex, I bought mine at the Southern NSRA swapmeet in Essex last year. A tenner a piece with knackered old tyres on, (no good for the road but O.K to build it on). They were sold to me as a matched set of 4 taxi rims, but when I got them home & looked closer, they turned out to be 2 16 inch taxi 'uns & 2 15 inchers of unknown origin. The front ones in the photos aren't actually mine -they came with a Pop axle I borrowed from Richard at Valley Gas Speed Shop to build the chassis on until I can get some machining done on my own axle. Think they might be Wolsley.
PantherShaun's on holiday for a couple of weeks but might be worth getting in touch with him when he gets back. I know he's got some taxi ones & may have spares.

Pics of the side air vents Ron.
The openings measure 165mm tall by 55mm wide. The flap mounting plate has 2 holes, 35mm apart & 6mm diameter. Bugger -forgot to measure where the mount sits on the flap itself.

.

thats great if you measure distance from edge for mounts will put 2 studs in no rush i know your busy

Thanks Ron. I'll check next time I'm there. I think the width measurement was a mill or two short of the actual hole size to allow for clearance when opening. The flap needs a radiused slight return lip on it, rather than just a flat panel please.
Just got home from Birmingham. Been to collect the aluminium radiator I bought from Ebay. Cost 250 quid to have built. I got it for 80. It came from a circuit racer -Peugeot hatchback bodyshell with Vauxhall redtop motor. It was used 5 times then they changed the racing regulations. The owner had been using an LDV van fan but kept it for the new rad. Anyone got one going spare? The Post Office use them but it's impossible to "lose" stuff from the workshops these days -too much paperwork. The Pop rad shell tapers towards the bottom. The radiator should just fit inside the top but the bottom corners might poke out either side. Fortunately I'll be running the sides of the bonnet open.

.

Tidy radiator  :D :D

Good too see it in the flesh mate, its going to be awsome when finished.

Should've had the engine in & running today. Soon, soon.

im looking foreward to seeing it finished mate, its going to knock peoples socks off.

Got to be finished & registered before the end of the year when they tighten up the registration process yet again. Sounds easy enough but you can bet we'll be out there on New Year's Eve trying to finish the thing! It seemed to be well recieved at the Basingstoke show, which was a nice shot in the arm for Loony & I. Good to know people liked it.
Madron -you still here? Haven't heard from you in a while.
The side vent measurement you asked for is 7/16" from the centreline of the flap for the mounting bolts.  :)

ye still here in background v busy at moment tryin to get van on road for creatures rally plus just got a big order for kitcar company for guards etc  will put bolts in flaps for ya also on with chummy seat mould  so i can make ya 2 and bring all ya stuff too billing if ya still going

Yup, will be at Billing. I'll use the original steel Chummy seat in the Pop, but will certainly buy a pair of 'glass ones from you -no idea why, but you never know when you might need them!

do you want me to take inner wing to billings  ;D ;D

Yuss perlease.  :)

ok dude will do  ;D ;D

We'll be there for the day on the Sunday.

Well unfortunately Mr Shabbs couldn't make it to Billing today, but Madron was there, (as well as PantherShaun), & brought back the repro Austin Chummy seat he borrowed from me. I'm using these in the Pop, but Ron's taken a mould from one to reproduce them in fibreglass -PM him if you fancy some. I've ordered a pair myself. Not sure why but you never know when they might come in handy.
 

I collected the second door repair panel from Pop Parts Plus today -they could only send the passenger one when I ordered them a few months ago as they were re-tooling for the driver's side.

Ron had also made me a pressie. A pair of air vent covers. The Pop has flip-out vents on either side of the cowl. I've got the hinge mechanisms but not the flaps themselves. Thanks to Ron & his fibreglassing skills, I do now. Thanks Ronald.  ;)

Also from Pop Parts Plus was this original Buick carb manifold.
My V8 Rover engine's fitted with the original twin SUs at the moment, but space is going to be limited under the bonnet due to the kicked up chassis, so I've decided to go with a 4 barrel Holley carb instead. Brock's found me a chrome plated 390 that's been sat unused on a show engine since the late 70s. It'll need rebuilding as the rubbers are bound to be perished by now of course. The Buick manifold will bolt straight onto the Rover engine & take the Holley, which will then poke up through the bonnet. My SUs are now promised to Lunatic for a future project.

I like the look of those Chummy seats - just what I could do with for the rear of the new trike IF it hadn't been made to small to take them!

they are not very wide seats you might find they will fit ;)

Not so much the width as the length - will have a think about it when I've got the trike - but the radiator would have to move.

No real progress on the Pop for a while now -I'm trying to rationalise our projects & concentrate on the one that's closest to being finished, which at the moment is my trike.
The Pop's front axle was dropped off at Namco, (North American Motor Company), in Farnborough, Hants, a week or so ago. They drilled out the spring perch holes to take the repro '32 Ford perches I've got, then bored a chamfer into the radius rod ends to fit the perches. If that doesn't make any sense I'll post some piccies next time I'm at the workshop. Basically it allows us to fit the new 26" wide tranverse spring to the original Pop beam axle. It will sit directly over the axle, rather than ahead of it as the original did, which will save us 4 inches or so in the engine bay.
Next job is to fit some hubs & wheels to the axle.
There are several disc set-ups from other cars that will almost fit the Pop spindles, but all require some degree of fettling & machine work. The closest we've found so far to a straight bolt-on fit are Triumph Vittesse brakes, which is what PantherShaun's gone for on his Pop.
A chance conversation at a hotrod show at the weekend led to a follow-up email telling me of a Dutton kitcar sitting in a scrapyard in Oxfordshire that appears to be fitted with the same Vittesse parts. Cars pass through this particular scrapyard pretty quickly though so I need to get over there as soon as I can.
I've also phoned Rimmer Brothers, specialists in Triumph parts, who tell me they can sell me brand new Vittesse discs for around 12 quid each & new, (not reconditioned), calipers for £76.55, both plus VAT.
They also do alloy hubs for a whopping 106 quid each, plus VAT. That's a lot of money when you tot it all up, but it would give me a brand new brake system, which is no bad thing. I'll chase the scrapyard brakes but if that falls through & Shaun can't locate the spare pair he's been told about, it might well have to be new parts. 

 

The Triumph hubs are a straight swap, even the Pop's old bearings fit the Triumph hubs, you do need to machine a spacer to locate the hub/disc correctly once the caliper is mounted but that is the only machining you have to do ;D ;D ;D

Cool!
Latest update- Brock's been in touch with his mate who's building a Dutton type thingy & secured me a pair of Vittesse hubs & discs, condition unknown. I've got to wait a couple of weeks till he can get hold of them, but hopefully the brakes are sorted. No calipers included as far as I know, so looks like I'll be going for the new ones. Probably not a bad idea anyway. :)

have you seen the price of new/recon calipers!!! :o

£76.55 each

i know,
i got lucky and paid i think £43 a pair, :P

Another of Brock's mates is heading to a scrapyard at the weekend & will take a look at another Dutton type kitcar they've got there. Hopefully he can liberate the complete Triumph hub/disc/caliper assemblies from that.

Anybody remember my Pop project? Been a while since anything was done on it. Just been too busy -life in general keeps getting in the way.
Anyway, latest on the front hub/brake saga is that new forum member "Goforest" has offered me a complete set of Vittesse hubs, discs & calipers for the princely sum of 30 quid. Obviously I said yes please, so will be visiting his workshop soon to liberate them from the triumph chassis.
The Pop's still lurking in the corner of Lunatic's workshop, on the outskirts of Basingstoke, Hants at the moment. I called on the Loony Man today & found he'd got bored of waiting for me to reappear & had been tinkering. The chassis is now sitting on my own Pop front beam axle, rather than the one I'd borrowed from Richard at Valley Gas Speed Shop, thanks to Namco in Aldershot drilling it to accept the new repro '32 Ford spring hangers. About 4 inches of clearance under the nose at the moment.

Still borrowing Richard's hubs & wheels at the moment as the Vittesse ones will need adaptors to change the bolt pattern for my taxi cab rims.
Standard Pops have the transverse spring mounted in front of the axle. By using a new shorter spring & mounting it directly above the axle we can save 4 inches or so of room, allowing us to push the axle further forward & gaining more engine bay room.

The standard set-up also uses a "wishbone" -a V shaped linkage that locates the axle to stop sideways movement. The point of the V is in the centre of the car under the gearbox. We've used the usual rodders' practice of splitting the wishbone to make two radius rods, which will run down either side of the chassis, ending in a rose joint attached to the chassis below the doors. We're actually using the rear wishbone as it's longer. The cast ends of the wishbone have been countersunk to accept the spring perches & now need welding to the cut down rods.
Does that all make sense?

We've actually made a mistake here -alright, I've made a mistake, which is nothing new. The cast rod ends are upside down. They're countersunk to allow the spring hangers to pass through them, but should've been the other way up as they're offset to clear the steering linkage. The countersinks are different angles so can't just be turned over. Not a major problem, but means a little more work to correct. It'll mean the steering rod that runs across the car from one hub to the other will be a little lower than normal, which in turn means more clearance between it & the sump of the engine. If it works out O.K we'll tell people we planned it that way.  ;)

Follow me round to the back of the cab & you'll see that Loony's been busy there too. He's added a framework of U shaped channel across the cab back & skinned it in 18 guage steel sheet. The body's a patchwork of little fill-in pieces of metal at the moment, but hopefully they can all be panel beaten into one smooth shape once they're all in place.
Anyone got a spare pair of Pop doors? Loony's had trouble filling the gaps where we cut the door tops to lower them. Would be handy if we could cut the complete door top section from another door.

The rear corners of the cab are double curved -as well as curving around the corner, they also taper from top to bottom. Loony's got an old Mini sat outside the workshop & reckons the tops of the front wings would be a pretty good match. He's going to try & source some cheap copies.

I really like the overall stance of Project Pop so far. It sits low enough to look pretty damn mean, but still has bags of clearance under the body, hopefully making it practical as an every day driver. We keep talking of welding the front sheet metal together & creating a one piece flip front, but might settle for welding the two halves of the bonnet together to form a single lift off panel. That would give plenty of access to the engine or allow me to run it open if I felt like it.

One of the next considerations is the radiator. I bought an ally racing one from Ebay ages ago, but it might prove too wide to fit inside the grille shell & may foul on the suspension dampers when we fit them. I might have to bite the bullet & buy a 400 quid ally one from "Pop Browns", specifically built to fit a Pop shell & cool a Rover motor. Or, as Loony pointed out, we could mount it in the pick up bed, up against the back of the cab in a purpose made housing & duct air up to it under the cab. Quite trick but might cause more cooling headaches than it's worth. It'd certainly do away with the need for a heater in the cab!
Oh, the big red box in the piccies is the new post box I made for our cottage by the way. It's in the workshop for a drop of hotrod pinstriping from Mister Loony's brush. Busy, busy!   :)

My word he has been busy, well done Lunatic, it's gonna be one sweet ride when done.

Blooming nice work guy's, looking good ;D
Andy you may find it cheaper to get Pop Browns to convert your hubs to Ford pattern and get some Minx wheels (15") I know they will be 4 stud will still look the mutt's ****

The mutt's butt?
I'll look into it Shaun. Erm, have you got any Minx hubs then? If I can blag some steel from SaddleBags' workshop I can get Reg, my local guy with a lathe, to produce adaptors, using new wheel studs from SpeedShack, a half hour drive from here. Trying to re-use & re-cycle as much old stuff as possible.
As Loony said, we've fitted a state of the art triangulated 4 bar linkage, with multi adjustable gas shocks on the back, & 50 year old jalopy technology on the front. It'll be fine!  :P
To be honest, I just haven't had time to help out on the Pop lately so have told Mr Loony he's got a free hand to crack on with it as he sees fit. We share similar tastes in rods so I trust him not to veer too far off plan. Got to get back to it soon as I want to get it registered before the end of the year.

This is the pair of Triumph Vitesse hubs & calipers I've just been to Egham, on the outskirts of London, to collect from Mr Goforest. I've also got a second pair, minus the calipers, courtesy of one of Brock's mates.
Goforest works for a car restoration company whose yard is a treasure trove of part stripped Triumphs & MGs. Cost me 30 quid. I've ordered a caliper repair kit through his company, including new pistons & will buy new discs at a later date. I'm hoping Goforest will become a regular visitor to our cottage as he's offered to provide the technical guidance we desperately need to tackle the rebuilding of Taz's Dodge Charger project. So he's our new very bestest buddy.  :)
I've spoken to "Pop Browns", the Ford Pop restoration & customisation specialists, & they can machine me a pair of hub adaptors to swap from the Vitesse's 4 x 3 3/4" stud wheel pattern, to the 5 x 5" of my taxi cab wheels. Not cheap at over 100 quid the pair, but there's no-one else available locally at the moment with the machines or materials to do it. I need to strip the hubs of their bearings & post them to Pop Browns for machining. 

top man kris brown,
you won't be disapointed with the service.(he changed my hubs a few years ago)

one of the better suppliers in the hobby, won't sell you anything if you don't really need it.
good for advice as well.

Yeah, I've already bought a few bits & pieces from him.
Might not need his services for the hubs now though. PantherShaun's been in touch & may have a lead on a pair of Hillman Minx rims. Very similar to my taxi cab ones, but 4 bolt instead of 5. That'll make redrilling the Triumph hubs much easier & my local mate-with-a-lathe-in-his-shed, Reg, says he can probably redrill them at work for me. Minx wheels will also take a standard Citroen 2CV tyre, which will save a few pennies.

and it'll bring the front down lower!!! ;D ;D

Never a bad thing -until you come up against a speed bump.
The Pop's sat on a borrowed pair of front rims at the moment. Think they might be Wolsely. The owner won't sell 'em to me, hence the need for something else. I'd really like to stick with tall, square profile, cross ply truck tyres for that 50s look, but they're not cheap.

Im pretty sure you'll find that the car drags along the road with 2cv tyres on it! You need to stick with something very close to what is on it. Otherwise we (you) may need to cut the crossmember out and move it back up again.

It was just a thought as Shuan told me yesterday that they'd fit. I want tall n skinny cross plies anyway so not a problem.

Good! ;D

didnt notice this thread before you all realy are into some mentally cool stuff OH YEAH!!!!!!

don't think the 2 cv tyres are that small, I will measure this weekend. Always good for a backup idea and you may need radials for the SVA??

Hmm, SVA's a good point Shaun.
Life's too short for boring vehicles & Mental's only a state of mind. :P

i hear ya mm
(twitch twitch)!!

 ;D
As you can see, I don't know any more about building stuff than anyone else here, but it's fun learning.
Grab some metal & start building something!

i will cant wait ta get ta me new gaff get in my garage to start mucking things up ill keep ya posted on them .maybe you could do a best cock up of the week section sure ill fill a few slots lol :)

i will cant wait ta get ta me new gaff get in my garage to start mucking things up ill keep ya posted on them .maybe you could do a best cock up of the week section sure ill fill a few slots lol :)

Making a good start already Matty!

cheers biker g i assume you mean my posting twice soz forgot how ta count defo a good start lol lol

 ;D

i think you have to state the estimated top speed of vehicle and the tyres have to cope(ie-speed rating) so your pop will only do 60mph!!! ;) so cross plys will be fine ;D

A cunning plan!

not to sure that will work ??? I think to SVA a truck you need relevant tyres fitted so 2cv may not even work ::) will check out the manual ;D

i don't think it matters what tyres you have, did you see that rough(as it f/kin rough :o )
roadster pick up at the nats last year that had passed commercial vehicle sva!!!

I'm sure someone told me that of the 5 things checked for the commercial SVA one was that it was fitted with the correct rated tyres?? but I could well be wrong and hope that I am ;D ;D I will ask my contact again.

Tall 'n' Skinny cross-ply fitted on a borrowed 16 inch wheel.
Citroen 2CV tyre on a VW rim, (the red one). 4 inches smaller diameter.

I'll take the tall 'n' skinny ones I think.

A few snaps of the story so far.
We shoved the front axle as far forward as we could. That gives us more room for the Rover engine, which in turn means more legroom in the cab -plus we just happen to like it that way.
The gap behind the wheel will be filled with engine & gearbox, exhausts, suspension radius arms, steering linkages etc.

Having accidentally scrapped the original inner wings, I blagged another pair from Shabby, which have been cut down to just their top curving edge, which forms the bridging arc between radiator grille & bulkhead. There'll be a 2 inch deep sill under the doors, which'll make the body look lower to the ground.

That's not the floor of the pick-up bed -just a spare sheet of steel. The Pop's become a temporary workbench.
Lots of bodywork still to sort -& a floor would be nice. The pick-up section will be constructed from the ribbed floor panel of a VW camper van, (I'd also like to use that for the cab floor if we don't fit carpets). The sides will also be camper van parts -repair panels for the rear arches. They'll come up level with the bottom of the windows & extend down to the level of the sills at the front at least. That'll help to make the Pop look shorter & squatter.

looking good manky wat rover engine r ya usin ?

This one. 3 1/2 litre V8. Bought locally a year or so ago for 200 quid. Early SD1 engine with maybe a P6 box. Range Rover heads with close fitting manifolds. Not entirely sure what's been done internally, (there was talk of it having seen race action), but when hooked up to a battery & fuel can it sits on the garage floor chugging away quite happily. I've now got a Holley 4 barrel carb & triangular mesh filter, sat on a Buick manifold, to replace the original SU carbs. That'll hopefully give a little more room in the engine bay.

thats a spanky engine and a bloody good price realy dont think it would fit in an realiant trike lol the pop will fly along .are you planning to use it as a daily trot or just take it to show off at meets ????you cant beat an old skool rod .all these boy racers with there novas and saxos that keep putting my insurance up (im at £77 a month for a vauxhall astra 3pft!!!!) should have a lookon here and build something with character  :) ;D when do you think it will be on the road?

I do 80 miles a day on the motorway, commuting to work & back, so not really sensible for that, but will be used for evening & weekend mileage.
It's got to be registered as a new vehicle, through the SVA, (Single Vehicle Approval), system. That's being changed in April next year to bring it into line with the rest of Europe, so I need to get it tested & registered before then. Aiming for the end of the year if possible. 

thats looking jolly good.
the rover in mine sits well forward, still more room for a rad with pop front than prefect(height)

cheers chris.

I think I'm gonna have to buy a new rad from somewhere like Pop Browns -expensive, but worth it. Been wondering about making the whole front a flip job, but decided it'll look better with the top bonnet panels welded together as a lift off piece, with the grille staying in place with the rad inside it. That'll mean I can run the car with the bonnet open in hot weather if I feel like it.

Still messing with the front suspension & steering.
Bought the rose joints for the split wishbone radius arms  but not fitted them yet. Next problem is the front shocks. Most rods go with short telescopic dampers as they're simple to fit & tidy. Loony plays about with VWs a lot & thinks he might have a spare pair of Beetle ones that would suit, but we don't think we'll have the room to fit them. They need to drop between the chassis rails & radius arms, which is a gap of maybe 3 inches. That means they'd have to sit vertically, which means they'd work well but would look odd.
So we're going to try lever arm dampers. They have a cast ally body filled with oil that we can bolt to the outside face of the chassis. An arm drops from that with a linking rod which we can link to the axle. Should be a space saving solution. Maybe.
So Taz & I called in at Brock's workshop yesterday & he removed the dampers from the Moggy Minor he's stripping for his new race car. Loony wanted the back axle so we took that too. 

.

These are the front dampers, which are quite chunky as they support the top of the king pins. So we'll probably use the rear ones which are bolted to the axle & are smaller.

These are the rear Moggy Minor dampers. Having fitted the transverse leaf spring we need a way to control or dampen it's boinginess. So we'll mount these lever-arm anti-boinginess units to the outside face of the chassis rails, then drop a rose jointed rod down to the inside face of the radius arms. Simple & tidy.
Don't worry -it'll make sense when we've finished it. Honest. 

The radius arms that locate the front axle to stop it moving sideways. They're made from the rear axle "wishbones", (the V shaped locating rods), cut down & re-worked a little. The narrow end will have a rose joint fitted to it to locate it on the chassis. The wider end will finish in a knuckle joint that bolts to the axle. Rather than just butt welding the parts together, we've cut some lengths of round bar -they'll be welded into the knuckle joints then the arms slid over them & welded around.   

looking good boy's

Well Mr Shaun's seen my Pop in the flesh now. We had a visit from him this afternoon, all the way from Kent. Good to see you Shauny.  ;) He brought along a pair of Hillman Minx wheels for me, as well as a pair of Pop wheels for Loony's Volksrod project.
My Pop's rolling on borrowed front rims at the moment, but we need to get the final ones on there soon so we can set the ride height up properly. I've already got a pair of Triumph Vitesse disc brake hubs, so I'll get them adapted to take the Minx wheels, then have the wheels powder-coated & fit a nice set of "pie crust" cross ply truck tyres.
So -any ideas on what colour the wheels should be? The car will be as it is now -satin black with the red & cream MMMotors logo on the doors. I'd like to run a red coachline along the doors & continuing on the top edge of the pick-up bed sides. The wheels need to pick up on one of those colours rather than clashing in something completely different. Black paint & red wheels has been done to death on hotrods so it's gotta be either cream or black. I was thinking maybe black wheels with a red stripe around the edge of the rim. Loony suggested chrome trim rings to break up the blackness of the wheels & tyres. Not sure but will have to decide soon. 

Loony's welded the radius arms up now. Here you can see them bolted to the axle with the back end propped in place against the chassis. The Moggy Minor lever arm dampers are also clamped in place on the outside edge of the chassis rails. Hopefully it should all work out quite tidily.
The ball jointed drop arm will be replaced with a rose jointed stainless rod to connect the dampers to the inside face of the radius arms.

.

Two of PD's nephews, (I think), were up from Cornwall for the weekend & keen to get their hands grubby. PD & Loony have donated an old CJ250 Honda to them to hone their spannering skills on.
In the workshop you can see Dave, (Lunatic Senior)'s V Dub trike, "Pscycho Triko", as featured in the Motors section of the main site.


Psycho Triko (http://mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/Trikespageimages/psycho/trike.html)

Good to see you guy's, thought I was to quick for your camera Andy ;D but I see my shorts made it into a picture ::)

Car is looking good, even better in the flesh than pictures, she is going to be one mean ride ;D ;D ;D

You're in the background of the last piccie too, looking cool with Loony.  8)
Nice to see you too Shaun.
You come on back real soon y'hear.
Thanks again for the wheels matey.  ;)

  do the wheels in gloss black, chrome nuts and dust cap, maybe wide whites

Mmm. Can't decide on gloss or satin for the body -should the wheels match?
Not convinced about wide whitewalls, but I quite like the narrow banded ones on the back wheels at the moment.

These are the Hillman Minx wheels Shaun gave me & the Triumph Vitesse hubs Brock gave me.
We need to change the stud pattern to marry the two together. At the moment the hubs are 3 3/4 inch PCD & the wheels 4 1/4. I've ordered a bag of new M12 studs & chrome nuts from SpeedShack in London & when they arrive we'll grind the old studs off flush & re-drill the hubs for the new ones. Then we'll have disc brakes on't Pop.

Have I shown you this?
The Buick inlet manifold I picked up from Pop Brown's stall at the Billing rod run earlier this year, with the 390 4 barrel Holley Carb I bought from Brock's mate Neil, the previous owner of his Black Pig race car. The triangular mesh air filter was a freebie from Brock's own spares bin.
I'm hoping this combo will give us a bit more clearance under the bonnet, & maybe perform a little crisper than the current twin SUs too. If it still won't fit inside the bodywork, I'll swap the filter for a bank of 4 velocity stacks & poke 'em up through the bonnet.

very nice,
be carefull with hubs as there won't be much meat left on edge!!!

chris.

Yeah, I checked with Chris at Pop Browns. They adapt Triumph hubs in the same way then weld them from the back just to be sure.

All the front suspension components in place now.
The 26" spring & shackles are new, sold by "Speedway", an American hotrod parts distributor, & bought through Valley Gas Speed Shop in Berkshire.
The standard Ford Pop beam axle has been redrilled to take the Speedway spring perches & the centre spring mount on the chassis is a modified Speedway one too.
The standard Pop "wishbone" locating arm has been replaced with two radius arms made from the rear wishbone. These locate the axle to stop it moving sideways. They attach with rose joints to the chassis just beyond the bulkhead.
Suspension damping is by a pair of Morris Minor rear lever-arm dampers. These are just an arm working against an oil filled piston to take some of the boinginess out of the spring. They're bolted to threaded inserts welded into the chassis legs & will connect to the inside face of the radius arms with a pair of rose jointed stainless rods which are being machined at the moment.
A very basic set-up but it's supposed to be -it's a 50s style hotrod so we didn't want anything too high tech.

All the big heavy welds will be prettied up once we know everything works.
The wheels are 16" Hillman Minx & will be fitted with tall skinny crossply tyres once I've checked they're O.K for the SVA test. They bolt straight onto the hubs here, but unfortunately they're not my hubs! They belong to Richard at Valley Gas & were borrowed just to get the thing rolling. We'll be using modified Triumph Vitesse ones which will allow us to fit disc brakes.
Hoping to get the engine over from my garage early next week & start fitting it.
Getting there slowly!

News hot off the text message. Manky has just texted to say the engine for his Pop is now safely at Marcus's work shop -Woo hoo! Will post more as and when I hear from him of the progress.

Just heard it's kinda in place ish  ;D

;D

photo's we need photo's :P :P :P :P Andy, the minx wheels are 15" mate so don't go buying 16" cross plys for them ;D ;D :-*

I'll remember -I hope.
I gave the Triumph Vitesse hubs to Chris from Pop Browns on his stall at the Hotrod Drags yesterday. He's going to re-stud them for me to suit the Minx rims, then I can pick them up at the same time as my new radiator in a couple of weeks time.

Right. Piccies.

Gary Hance, a local car recovery/delivery guy & fan of classic Fords, picked up the Rover motor from my lock-up today & ferried it out to Loony's country workshop.
"Deliverhance" 01256-420445 or 07815-114062.

Loony shunted his stock of V Dubs about to make room.

Transplant patient meets it's new donor heart.
1953 Ford Pop, say hello to 1970s 3 1/2 litre Rover V8 with Borg Warner auto box. 

Hoik it up & bung it in. Easy.
Took 4 of us, armed with an engine hoist, 2 trolley jacks, 4 axle stands & several crow bars, 3 hours to "bung it in". Heavy little buggers ain't they.

christ Manky :o :o :o you gonna need more ground clearance than that :o :o :o ::) :-* and why was Loony hiding in the kitchen/office???

 ;D He was -supervising.
Should have over 9 inches of sump clearance when it's done -that's more than my Ford Fiesta. It's practically a gasser. We had to take off the exhaust manifolds & the engine & gearbox dipsticks but eventually, after much cursing, thumping & heaving, it plopped into place.
Loony's run out of welding gas so we couldn't weld the engine mounts in place. So for tonight we left the sump sat on the floor between the rails. Mounts are from Pop Browns in Essex & feature nylon bushes in place of the original Rover rubbers. The steel mounts need trimming to length.
The motor has to be lifted 9 1/2 inches for the mounts to line up with the chassis rails. We'll trim the bulkhead back to suit. It'll be fine. Trust me.  ;D

top job you lot

Coming together nicely manky, loving the mahoosive mota you has squeezed in to it!

Haven't read this thread for a while, not really into 4 wheelers, but this really has me interested.Mind you if it takes as long as the trike :D :D :D :D :D :D

tell u wot ,that pop looks the nutts .. love the idea with old skool front end etc...

Hello Old Harper & welcome to MankyWorld.  ;)
Thanks for the positive input.  ;D We've got a tough deadline on this one. We're going to register it as a new vehicle, through the Commercial SVA process. Unfortunately that all changes next April when the procedures are tightened up to bring them into line with Europe. So we're aiming to get this thing at least testable, if not fully finished, by Christmas. If you look at the roof you'll see Loony's chalking up the days -"130 days to go". Not long. Not long at all. Especially when I've got 2 trikes on a similar deadline!
Loony had a few errands to do today & I had to head home to Guildford, (an hour's commute from Loonyville), at tea time, so we only had time to trim back the bulkhead a little more & start blocking the motor up to the correct height. We plan to sit the engine mounts level with the chassis rails -so they run horizontally between the engine & the inside face of the chassis legs. That should mean the exhausts exit just above the chassis. Can't get the hoist in the right place to lift the motor cleanly so we're using a trolley jack at either end, lifting & adding blocks of wood till we reach the desired height.
Another 4 inches or so to go yet.

The auto gearbox doesn't take up half as much room inside the cab as I thought it would. I imagined the shifter being way back behind me somewhere with a huge tunnel between the seats. Actually. it looks like the shifter will be a stretch forward to reach & come up maybe 4 or 5 inches between the seats. Good job it's an auto though cos there's only room for two pedals in the footwell!

Lots of measuring & shifting the motor back & forth this afternoon until we were eventually satisfied it was sitting central & level in all directions -thank you Loony Senior for your assistance.
We're using 2 part, nylon bushed engine mounts from Pop Browns. When we originally worked out the dimensions for the box section chassis, we decided to drop the engine between the rails. I don't know if we're cleverer than we thought or whether it's pure luck, but it seems to have worked out pretty well. We shortened the mounts down a little then welded them to the inside face of the chassis rails.

Never leave a camera unattended in the workshop.

I think I know who the culprit was.

Engine bolted up & the Pop dragged out into the daylight. Woo hoo! it fits!

The SU carbs will be dumped in favour of a big shiny 4 barrel Holley.
Looks like the exhausts will need to curve out over the chassis & down. There's a curved bridging piece to go in under the bonnet sides, so not sure how the pipes will work around that yet -maybe straight out through it?

Plenty of ground clearance under the sump. Lowest part is the nose of the grille, which is bang on 4 inches off the deck, then the chassis rails under the cab, at about 6 inches.

There's about 2 inches of clearance between the top of the carbs & the underside of the bonnet..

Next job is to replace the temporary wooden  gearbox cross member with something a little more substantial. I've got to try & blag some more box section from somewhere tomorrow. The propshaft flange on the gearbox sits 3 1/2 inches higher than the axle diff flange, but I've got the 2 piece propshaft from the Sherpa van that donated the axle in my lock-up. We'll mount the propshaft centre bearing off the cross member at the back of the cab so that the prop runs gently downhill to the axle.

The evil gremlin that lives in my car.

looking bloody good guy's ;D

Seats don't look to comfy tho'

Im not much of a car guy,but that looks cool to me.

Thanks guys.  ;D
Seats are repro Austin 7 Chummy, bought for 25 quid the pair at an autojumble at Brooklands last year. The plan is to powder-coat them, either in black, or metallic silver to mimic aluminium World War 2 bomber crew seats, (a popular weight saving mod for 50s hotrodders & back in fashion now). The bases will be padded & covered in black leather.
If anyone fancies a pair, contact Madron on this 'ere forum, who took a mould from mine to churn them out in fibreglass.
Loony & I nipped over to Valley Gas Speed Shop this afternoon & bought a metre length of box section for the gearbox crossmember, (25 quid). Jimmi said the cost of steel has rocketed & he realised the offcuts he was giving away for 5 or 10 quid were actually costing him 30 or 40 quid, so we'll make the most of the bit we bought.

wow that is dear!! um and will fibre glass take the powder coat temps ?

Looking great now Andy ;) ;) ;)

needs one of these mate
http://www.rathergood.com/elvis/

No VB, fibreglass don't weld too good either.
Mr Satan, your continuing oddness never fails to amaze me.  :P

Andy, don't forget that your front wheels are likely to be slightly smaller than the current one's ;)

its monkey

Odd.  :P
I know Shaun, I know!  :)
Opinions differ slightly in the Loony workshop, but I'd like to radius the bottom corners of the front grille panel, to follow the curve of the ribbed insert & get rid of the square bottom edge. I think it would just "flow" more like that. We can finish the cut edge with a length of round bar welded around it. That would lift the lowest point of the car by several inches.

It's really beginning to look like something that's gonna take to the road!


4 inches ground clearnce - that'll be fun!  Many years ago, my dad had a Healey tickford that had 4½ inches, used to get in all kinds of trouble, I particularly remember a gateway to a field car park - with a long queue of cars behind!  And once when the Fire Brigade had a hose across the road with little ramps each side - STUCK!

 ;D

 ;D
It depends where the 4 inches are Bobbi -so I'm told.
The front wheels sit ahead of the grille, so hopefully should contact any ramps & speed bumps before the grille does & roll over them. High cambered roads & debris in the centre of the road, between the wheels, will be another matter though!

hmm mines only got 4" to the sump :( think i'll b fitting a sump guard what with all the sheep we run down :)

Come to think, I've never measured mine on the trike - but I have terrible trouble with speed bumps - you the ones they call sleeping policemen?  I just have to try and scrape the exhaust s l o w l y !

:) the sheep i hit are still alive at the time of impact :) and generally on there side they stand more than 4"... police tend to drive around in cars/vans ....for fear of getting run over :)

I've been told 4.5 inches under the sump is as low as you should go, anything more and you will get stuck.

We've got nine inches under the sump -the grille's likely to be the problem. Hoping this car's going to be reasonably sensible to drive, despite it's looks. It sits quite low, but we've built the suspension around the car at that height, rather than dropping the body/chassis over standard running gear & ending up with it riding on the bump stops. We've got full suspension travel front & back & maximum turning circle.
Our trikes have between 4 & 6 inches of clearance under the sumps. Never really been a problem except one occasion when we had to physically lift Flap's orange trike over a particularly vicious speed hump in the gateway of a show. Not the coolest way to make your entrance. But then, he's only got around 3 inches.  :P

so you've got 9 and Flappy's only got 3 :-[ no wonder he doesn't hang around with you much anymore ;) ;) ::)

must say andy , looking the dogs doo darr's  ;D ;D ;D

Looking good andy but now the motor's in where do you put your legs?

I have to fold them behind my ears.
We can't get in the cab yet cos the doors are tack-welded shut so the body doesn't distort & it's full of bracing poles, (it's possible to crawl in from underneath but not to get into a seating position). So we haven't actually tried it for size yet, but there seems to be a suprising amount of space inside. By pushing the front axle further forward than it'd normally be, there's more room for the engine so it doesn't come as far back into the cab as a lot of Pops do.

A couple of days ago we picked up a length of box section from Valley Gas Speed Shop & welded it across the chassis as a gearbox cross member. Using my bestest Blue Peter skills, I then made up a paper template of the gearbox mounting plates. I cut them out of the offcuts from the front engine mounts, (roughly 6mm steel plate). Tack-welded in place by Mr Lunatic. So now the motor's fully fitted.

The temporary wooden cross member was tapped out & -woo hoo! The motor didn't crash to the floor. Result.

Brock paid a visit to the workshop yesterday, (sorry I missed you Steve). He brought with him a set of tubular headers to fit a Rover motor. They'd been kicking round his workshop for ages. Hey, not bad. Prettier than the cast iron RangeRover ones my engine came with -they flow nicely along the side of the Pop body.

They're only propped in place here. They need spacing out from the cylinder head by a couple of inches.

So I nipped out to the local tyre & exhaust centre. Help yourself to the scrap exhausts in the skip behind the shop they said. Oh, & did you know the front tyres on your Fiesta are illegally bald?
Bugger. So a couple of assorted sized bits of tube & 119 quid for a new pair of tyres. I knew I needed them & planned to get 'em changed before Taz & I go on holiday in a couple of weeks, so not all that bad really.
I cut the nearest size tube up into 8 equal lengths. They ended up 3 inches long.
Run 'em like that? Yeah, we thought that too, but can't see them getting past the SVA inspector somehow.

So the pipes were cut & the extra sections added in.

I left Loony welding up the various sections. The pipes now clear the chassis rails & the body nicely. Perfect.

.

Oh & the drop arms are fitted to the lever arm suspension now, connecting the units to the radius arms.

Looks like your making good progress there, cant imagine having more than one project on the go, madron had 28 last time i asked  :o

We've got 4, 3 of which will need MSVA/SVA ing & I get seriously stressed about them all. Must admit I'll be glad when they're all done.

Yes but then you will be really bored and start another 1 or 4 :) :)

Looking good there MM,making real progress. 8)

ont be long before its looking as nearly finished as the trike ;D what the hell are you going to do then ;D

excellent progress.

I plan to retire & become a multi millionaire media mogul.  ;D

Course you will ;D :P

I'm going to sell you all to Richard Branson.  ;D

So after the success of bodging up the right hand exhaust, we thought we'd bung the left hand one on.
Hmm, somethin' ain't right there.
Closer examination revealed the two headers to be completely bloody different. Not only are the 4 down pipes different shapes from one side of the engine to the other, they actually run into different ports in the collector box. Oh poo.
Much head scratching & munching of Pringles, (a garage favourite), & we had to admit we'd have to cut it up & do it again. Poop.
So the left hand header will be made up of roughly 23 thousand seperate pieces of tube.

It'll be fine. Honest.
 

Arrived at Loony headquarters today to find he'd managed to sort out 3 of the 4 pipes of the left hand header. Not only that but when I got there the motor was running. A bit lumpy -not suprising as there's only 7 out of 8 pipes & lots of holes to be filled in the ones it's got, but it fires up at the first turn of the key touch of the wires on the battery & chugs away quite happily. Result!
Now for a techy question for you lot. There's an electrical fitting in the ignition circuit we can't identify. I'll grab a photo tomorrow, but not much to see really. It's a block of clear resin, wrapped in aluminium sheet, with 3 wires going into it. One goes to, (or maybe comes from), the + terminal of the coil. One to the - terminal & branching off to the distributor & one straight to the dizzy. Any ideas? Is it a ballast resistor? Seems to be acting as a switch in the circuit as without it connected there's no spark at the plugs. Can I replace it with the coil I bought for my trike, which has a ballast resistor piggy backed onto it? It's an ugly lump of ally & resin so would be nice if we can get rid of it. My engine's a late 70s SD1 Rover by the way, with a P5 or P6 gearbox & possibly Range Rover heads.

nice work guys ;D think I'd better get up the barn tomorrow and work on mine or I'm not going to make the Hayride next year for our Poptastic show down on the dirt :-\ :-\ :-\

beware of resin compounds in silver foil, you`ll have the drug squad after you! :D
Seriuosly tho, we need to identify the distributor that you have, i believe rover experimented with 3 different ones in the late 70`s, early 80`s, this is around the time that electronic ignition was first being introduced.
So the first question is, points or no points? My guess is none. And so, does this look familier?

an old pic, sorry

Hmm, I'll need to take a closer look at our motor tomorrow. Really not sure what we've got, but does look like that's a ballast resistor then doesn't it. Haven't even popped the cap on the dizzy yet so no idea if it's points or leccy.
We messed about with the 4 left hand pipes again this afternoon. They're never going to quite match the tight bends of the other header, but we've done what we can with the assorted bits of tube we had. I've brought them home to clean 'em up a bit in the shed over the weekend. We're thinking maybe we'll wrap them in black exhaust bandage as it'll disguise any differences in profile & be in tune with the 50s hotrod ethos.

Yes, of course we had to fire it up again before we took the pipes off!
Sounds completely different than it did with the cast Rover headers on. Got a real bark to it. We plan to run a pair of long "Smithys" silencers, (like long "Cherry Bombs"), under the body on either side, exiting under the pick up bed tailgate.
See you on the dirt Shaun!  ;)

The dizzy will have a number stamped into the casing, usually round the back! if thats the setup you have it sounds like its already been cannibilised. should have the six wires attached, one feeds the tacho, the other two override the resistor when you turn the engine over, giving increased power to the coil for a short burst. When the starter disengages the resistor cuts back in. would have looked like this at some point....

Yup, that's the resin/aluminium thingy we've got. The wires are plugged in with DIY crimp on terminals. How does the over-ride bit work? Can I use the ballast resistor I've got in the shed?

Time to look inside the thing. NO! put that hacksaw down, i`ve got a pic somewere  ;D
The balasted ignition circuit is to improve the spark when starting.

In a nutshell, during cranking,the battery voltage drops to around 9v, due to the heavy load being drawn by the starter motor. So they use a 6v ignition coil and feed it through the ballast resistor. Therefore the coil gets a 6v feed to it because the Ballast resistor drops the voltage down. Resistance of the resistor is equal to the resistance of the primary windings on the coil.
When you turn the key and the starter engages, the starter relay or solenoid, provides another 12v feed into the resistor and due to the way its wired,the ballast resistor is "by-passed" therefore feeding 9v to the coil during cranking. As soon as the engine fires and you let go of the key, the solenoid disengages the by-pass of the ballast resistor and the coil sees 6v again.
Still not answered your question though have i....in theory, yes you can use the one in the shed.
Just have to figure out which, of the 3 wires you have left, does what, and why ony 3, a fourth would make more sense, because then...
One to + (coil)  = 9v from resistor
One to - (coil)   = Dizzy pick up (branch to feed tacho)
One to dizzy     = pick up feed   (poss 12v)
but a fourth is needed to supply 12v into the resistor

Hmm, I'd like to say I understood that, but I'd be lying.
This is what we've got. Distributor. No points. No discernable numbers.

Leccy box thing.
3 wires going into one side only.

I need to find a remote oil filter for the motor too. The standard set up sits right where we want to put the steering box, so I need to relocate it to the other side of the chassis. Or build it as a left hand drive!

Looks to me like its being used as a junction box. i think you probably get a direct 12v feed. unless the resistor is between the white/green and red wires, that would then suply reduced current into the dizzy.
White/green wire would supply voltage from coil +
Black/white  wire would be the trigger feed ( and tacho which is no longer used) goes to coil -
red wire would supply power to the dizzy

So can we run without it & if so, which wires should go where on the ballast resistor/coil I've got in the shed? Only one feed into the new resistor & one out as far as I remember.

Having slept on it and bearing in mind i have no info on the currently used coil, heres what i`d do.
First, see what the voltage is at the + side of the coil, gotta assume its 12
second, confirm the voltage for the lead that goes direct to the dist, (red one?)  <12v confirms that the resistor is placed between those two connections, giving 12 volts input and ?? volts output.
( 6ish volts means you cannot use your new coil, as that was for the reliant engine and so it would output 9ish volts) Your red wire needs to be 9ish volts in order to use your new coil/resistor, In which case, you would set your new one up like so...
WHAT A CRAP DRAWING!! ok in words...
12v into one end of the RESISTOR ---other end (9v out) connect to COIL + terminal
RED WIRE (direct from dizzy) connect to COIL + terminal   (this is the power in lead for the electronic trigger)
BLACK / WHITE WIRE connect to COIL - terminal              (this is the output wire from the electronic trigger)

Still pretending I know what you're talking about.
O.K, not a top priority at the moment, but will refer back to that when we get that far. The coil I've got was bought from a trade stall at a hotrod show, so not a Reliant one, just yer average 12v jobbie I assume. Thanks for that TB.

you know it works as it stands so just tidy it up a bit  ;), as the old saying goes, if it aint broke dont fix it  :D

Yeah, I'd just like to swap that ugly block for something prettier that's all. Was on a local rod run today & checked out Clunk's old Rover engined sedan. He's used a resistor from a Renault. Next job on my Pop is to cobble together some sort of steering set-up. We've got the choice of 4 steering boxes. The original Pop one, A VW camper one, an earlier V Dub split screen one & a Reliant one. Steering column will probably be a mix of Morris Minor, Pop & VW too.

here is said Clunks Rover

mmmmmmm sweeeeet.
Thats the reason i dont do cars... too many nice ones about

42 cars on a treasure hunt type run around the Surrey countryside today. Great weather, gorgeous motors, good company. Taz & I took over 1000 photos between us so whittling them down to a sensible amount as we speak.

Clunk's Rover engine.

Ran a few beads of weld around the exhausts today. One of the flanges is out of line, so we'll need to slice it off, bolt the pipes up to the motor again & re-position it. No point prettying up the welds till we know the pipes are right.

nice work chaps ;D
Manky, try these guy's for crossply tyres http://www.vintagetyres.com  this one seems pretty good Waymaster  ;D ;D

Will do Mr Shaun. Still got to check that crossplies are allowed in the SVA test though.
Kev Rooney, one of the rodders' voices during the SVA consultation process, was on the Surrey Street Rodders run yesterday, but I didn't get a chance to talk to him.

you got a fuel tank yet Mr Manky? as I have access to a genuine Pop one ;D ;D

Manky says yes Shaun, he's re-using the original Pop one, but thanks anyway.  ;)

no problem, just thought I would ask ;D

Trying to re-use as much orignal Pop stuff as possible.
Just got home from a week's holiday in Scotland, so not quite back to normal yet, but I've had a phone message from Chris at "Pop Browns" to say the new radiator I ordered is ready for collection. He's somewhere in Essex. He's also reworked my Triumph Vitesse front hubs to take 12mm wheel studs in the correct stud pattern for my Minx wheels.
I've also had a message from "Real Steel" in Uxbridge, (not too far from us). I ordered a remote oil filter kit for the Rover engine, but before it arrived we found we no longer needed it. So it's still in it's box. Need to return it to their shop & swap it for maybe an adaptor plate to fit my Holley carb to my Buick inlet manifold. Or something shiney, depending on what they've got in stock.
Really got to push on with the Pop, as well as our 2 trike projects now. The SVA vehicle registration process is due to change in ..April, I think, to bring it into line with the rest of Europe. I'm told the trike side of things won't alter very much but that the car side will be a lot harder, so I need to get this thing at least up to SVA/MOT test standard as soon as possible now.

Starting to seriously worry we won't get this thing sorted in time now.
Today's been taken up with a trip to Harlow in Essex, to the home of Chris, head honcho of Pop Browns, to collect the super shiney new aluminium radiator. It's designed to fit inside the original Pop rad shell, using the original mounts, (which, of course, we haven't got), but has a much larger core to cool the 3 1/2 litre Rover mill. This baby cost me as much as I paid for the whole car!

I also picked up a thermostat switch & relay for the fan, which is on back order.
Not sure if there's going to be enough room between the radiator surround & the front axle to fit the rad' in. We've pushed the axle about 4 inches further forward than it would normally be. Hopefully, we can stretch the bonnet an inch or 2 if necessary to accomodate it without it being too obvious. We'll need to fabricate a frame to support the surround & radiator as we're not using the original inner wing panels.

Also on the shopping list was some triangular exhaust flanges.
It's much easier to piece the system together & remove bits when needed if they're on flat, bolt-together flanges, rather than slip-on joints. Two silencers, a flange on each end of each one, plus a corresponding flange on the pipe ends, so 8 flanges & 4 gaskets.
We hooked the motor up to a battery & fuel can & fired it up this afternoon.
"Damn that's loud! We'd better try it with the Cherry Bomb silencers fitted".
"They are fitted".
Oh bugger. Better think about some extra, super muffled, silencer boxes for the test then. 

"Pop Browns" took my tatty old Triumph Vitesse front hubs & re-machined them to take new 12mm wheel studs in the correct pattern to fit the Hillman Minx wheels we're fitting on the front of Project Pop. As the new studs are quite close to the outside edge of the hubs, they've been bronze welded from the back for added peace of mind. We do the same thing on our trike disc conversions. The wheels will need the bolt holes opened out by about 1/2mm as they're Imperial, not Metric, but otherwise they fit. So now we can run Triumph disc brakes. Cool.
I've heard all sorts of opinions on which combination of bearings & spacers work to fit the hubs on the spindles. Probably one Triumph bearing & one Pop one, with a small spacer shim behind the inner one. I'll take a trip to the local bearing supplier next week & see what they recommend.

A small brainwave from Mr Lunatic.
He's been wondering how to finish off the rear corners of the Pop's cab bodywork. Although it looks a simple enough shape, the corner panels need to curve from top to bottom, as well as around from the door to the cab back, plus it would be nice if they could end in a rolled sill to flow nicely under the body.
A big job for him to achieve with only basic shaping tools.
Solution: sitting outside Loony's workshop is an old British Leyland Mini. Hmm, those front wings look almost exactly the shape we're looking for. A pair were ordered up from the local panel suppliers while we were away on our holidays & are now sat in the workshop, awaiting carving up, expert fitting. About 30 quid each. Once the Mini mounting flanges have been cut off they should have enough flex to be persuaded to fit quite nicely. Result!  ;D

.

Another road trip today -over to Uxbridge in Middlesex, (actually only half an hour or so from us). Taz & I visited the premises of "Real Steel" to return the remote oil filter kit I bought for the Rover engine. It was bought because we thought the steering box would foul the original set-up, then we changed our minds on the steering, so it wasn't needed.
So we swapped it for this little lot. I've got a 4 barrel Holley carb & what we think is a Buick manifold, although the guys in the shop today weren't sure. I needed a way of connecting the 2 together as the mounting holes didn't line up. After a bit of head scratching & measuring, they came to the rescue with a nice shiny adaptor plate. I also bought their throttle cable fitting kit, a manual choke conversion to replace the existing electric one, a new thermostat housing, a carb rebuild kit & a Holley carb rebuild & tuning manual. Hopefully with that little lot bolted together we should be able to do a straight swap with the SU carbs currently fitted, although we might wait until after the SVA & MOT tests as the present set-up is working quite nicely. Cost me 50 quid on top of the cost of the exchanged oil filter.

Loony had a quick tot up of the costs so far the other day -probably a bit more subjective than I would be. He reckoned about 1700 quid so far, which is actually less than I expected. We always say we could build one of our Reliant trikes for about a grand if we were happy to recycle & adapt old parts, no powder-coat etc, but in reality they all seem to come to around 2 1/2 thousand cos everyone wants a pretty machine, with a certain amount of nice shiney bits & bobs. I'm hoping to build the Pop for a similar cost & so far it looks like we might just do it.

13 mm drill will do the job perfect  ;D


either the original Pop wheel bearings or the Triumph bearings will do as they are exactly the same ;D ;D ;D you just need a "top hat" machined to take up the difference in the oil seal and  to align the hub with the disc

I've got a complete set of new Triumph ones so will obviously try those first. So much to do!  :(

I think you need to stop going to shows and stuff like that and just spend your spare time working on the POP. When thats sorted or your waiting for something to arrive then get you trike done and then get Taz's Trike sorted.  Otherwise you will get......stressed...... fed up ......and you won't get anything done!  You know I'm right   ;D ::)

I've got to get my Beach Bastard completed and Mrs Byzmax has said she wants a Trike of her own for next spring/Summer so I will be spending all my spare time in the garage. If I give up my social life over the next 6 months I will have the Spring/Summer/Autumn off next year! 



 

I know, I know!!
You're so right Byz.  :(

Well with winter coming up you should have more time.   ;)

Ha! It's never ending mate.

Well, we had a look at the front hubs & bearings today. I've got a set of new bearings for the Triumph Vitesse hubs, but at least one of 'em doesn't fit as well as it should. Hmm, maybe they're for a different year, or a different model altogether. Bum. No, of course I haven't still got the receipt.
We've got an old set of Pop bearings, so tried mixing & matching the inner races & outer shells. They fitted together O.K, but didn't fit the hubs.
Alright, on to Plan B. I gathered up the hubs & all the bearings & headed for the local bearing suppliers. Make these fit this please.
They took pity on me & started measuring up. They weren't too impressed with my replacement Triumph bearings, dismissing them as suitable for trolleys & barrows, but not for a high speed road car. I ended up buying the smaller outer bearings & ordering the larger inner ones.
We agreed we've got to get systematic about this build as we're running out of time. Lots of jobs are half done. So we'll work our way from front to back, finishing each job before moving on.   

   when all else fails, make a plan  ::)

There's a plan?

The radiator fan arrived in the post yesterday. Fits perfectly on the rad & the whole ensemble looks like it might just fit inside the standard Pop grille.  :)

.

Every time Loony walks past the Pop he tries out another colour on it.

I'm seriously tempted by this one. Sort of airforce blue. Or maybe duck egg blue? (he recently sprayed some household radiators in it). I think satin or matt blue with gloss black chassis & running gear & a black outline version of the logo on the doors would look pretty smart.

the rad/fan looks like a good fit, colours sound ok as well :) but as you now there's a few steps before that happens m8e ;D also sounds like you may be changing the logo colours :)

The logo colours of the website are never changing! -took us months to decide on those!
Taz's Charger's going to have black outline logos on the doors, on a plain battleship grey paintjob with the chrome bumpers & trim powder-coated black. So a bluey grey paintjob & black detailing on mine would make them a "his 'n' hers" pair, but with enough differences that they don't look like carbon copies.

After getting up at 3.30 this morning, (earlier start at the Post Office on Saturdays than the rest of the week), & trudging the streets all morning I was very cold & very tired, so didn't stay long at Chez Loony today.
Long enough to say Hi to my brother, Brock, & Mrs Brock who called in to deliver a gearbox to PD & to get some drag team embroidery done by the guy who does our merchandise. Nice to see you, you two.  ;)
The front radius arms are now finished. They attach to the chassis with rose joints & locate the axle.
The hub in the photo is a standard Triumph Vitesse one. I'll buy new discs but will refurbish the calipers.

I tried to warm up by smoothing off all the welds on the Pop's front cross member with a flap wheel on the angle grinder, but eventually admitted defeat & brought the exhaust headers home to fettle tomorrow. Having paid Valley Gas Speed Shop to produce the basic chassis for us, we then cut the front cross member out again & raised it. The spring perch is welded to it, so raising it lowers the front of the car. We gussetted it on either side for added strength, so there was a patchwork of welds to smooth out. The open ends of the main chassis legs have also been trimmed back flush with the cross member & plated over.   

The arse in this shot belongs to Mr Lunatic. Pull your trousers up lad! He's a tad over 6 foot tall, so it gives you some idea of the ride height of the Pop.

Got home yesterday to find Taz had decided to help by stripping the Holley carb down ready to strip the blue anodising off & fit the rebuild kit. Jeez, I hope she knows how it goes back together!  :o

erm  ??? 









 ;D

I pulled this off of the net just last night, we are going to strip all the anodised bits we have and maybe redo them

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html

It will strip with a quick dip in a bath of caustic soda (allegedly)

Not sure if our carb parts are anodised. Looks like they may be painted.
Loony gave me some truck cleaner that he's used to strip anodising before & it didn't touch the stuff on our bits. So Taz very carefully used NitroMors paint stripper. Took the blue straight off, to reveal what looks like unpolished chrome underneath. Result. 

   that may be zink chromate, soft silvery yellow colour a lot of fuel parts are finished in, or maybe yellow passivated zink, I can never remember which, I think that it means a zinc surface that has been treated with a hexivalent chrome compound so the simple answer is you're right. Thinking about it all the parts on that "baby hemi" that weren't polished or chromed were painted blue, good looking engine, should have taken it when he offered it with the car.

Well the carb's mine, all mine! harr ha, ha!
So there.
Ha! I was right for once!  ;D

Started looking at mounting the radiator & grille shell today.
I wasn't keen on the square bottom edge of the grille surround. It's designed to bolt to the inner wings, which we're not using, so looked sort of -unfinished. So I marked it out in white Tippex pen & we slimmed it down a little. Looks much better.

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We'll bend up a framework to support the grille & hang the radiator from. I bought a length of 3/4 inch bore ERW -smaller than the trike frame stuff, but plenty strong enough for the job. The radiator needs to fit as far inside the shell as we can get it, so the framework will probably be a mix of round & flat bar for extra clearance.

Loony's been experimenting with radiator mounts. He mocked up a hanging bracket to bolt the top of the rad to the framework we put in the other day. The frame's welded directly to the radiator shell. Today we replaced the temporary bracket with a permanent steel one, bolted through a rubber washer to the rad. Next will be a similar tube frame around the bottom of the shell with 2 side mounts for the rad.
Looks like we're gonna have to cut off both the inlet & outlet spigots from my shiny new, very expensive radiator & re-route them. The top one will foul on the fan belt & the bottom one on the axle.

We need to stretch the bonnet panels by about 2 inches to accomodate the radiator.

Picked up the hubs today from Reg, our friendly local garden shed lathe operator.
He's machined them very slightly to take the new bearings. The Pop ones fitted the spindles but not the hubs & the Triumph ones the hubs but not the spindles. If anyone's interested, the smaller bearings are 03062/03162s & the larger ones 07098/07204s. 19 quid per pair.
 

I opened out the bolt holes in the Hillman Minx wheels PantherShaun supplied to take the new Metric studs, we repaired the rusted valve hole in one of them & hey presto, we have wheels that fit! The new discs are on order, so soon we'll have a Pop front axle, fitted with disc brakes. Next step is to get the wheels powder-coated & get some nice tall, skinny cross-plies on them.

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Tis looking mighty fine there Andy.  ;)

Why thank you Mr B.  ;D
As suggested, we've cut back on the shows & rallies a bit now to concentrate on getting our various projects done for the Spring. I finish work at 2 in the afternoon, work at Loony's workshop till about 6 or 7, spend an hour driving home, then do another hour or two in the shed on trike parts. So I'm permanently knackered at the moment, but it'll be worth it when everything's finished.
Took an afternoon off from the workshop today to call in at North Hants Tyres in Aldershot, (I pass them on my way home from work). They're specialists in vintage & custom tyres & have a good range of classic cross-plies. After a chat & a wander around their stores I'm plumping for 640 or 670 x 15 black wall Excelsiors on the front & matching 600 or 650 x 16s on the back. They all work out to around 70 quid each. No point buying them till the rims have been powder-coated but they've got them all in stock. Only forseeable problem is that all road-going cross-plies are only rated to 95mph. Will the SVA guys pick up on that? Possibly. Worst case scenario, I have to take it away & bung on a set of the cheapest budget radials I can find for the duration of the test. Safety wise, I'm not planning on racing this motor & how often do you get to do 90+ on British roads these days?  

sh1t thats looking good sir, you can always borrow my front wheels if you need to mate as I'm running radials, rears are more of a problem ::)

Thanks Shaun, I'll take you up on that if I have to. Feel free to call in & help out!

just put that top speed is 95mph!!!
when form filling!!

Yeah, that was my ultra sneaky plan!  ;)

looking good there Manky

Umm Putting down the top speed as 95 mph is a no no unless you have a speed limiter!!!

I was pulled up on this!!

Tyres are something ther pay a great deal of attention to. They will require them to be marked with speed/ load ratings and the relevant eu related marks.

Yeah, I wondered that. Looks like I'll be building with one set & testing with another.  ;)

That's seriously looking as if it might get finished sometime in the forseeable future!

Oh ye of little faith Bobbi!
It'll get finished -somehow.
Think I'll build Project Pop with the cross-plies, try & test it, one way or another, but have a spare set of radials standing by.
Didn't have a lot of time at Loonyville today, so settled for bending up the bottom half of the radiator grille framework. Ideally it would've been a continous loop but we need room for the fan so will have to do it in 2 parts & maybe join them with flat bar. Loony will weld it directly to the grille shell then dress the bottom of the sheet metal around the tubing.

Mr Loony's got a sniffly snuffly cold at the moment, so not much achieved again today. I stood & watched as he did all the work, welding the bottom loop of tube to the rad' shell then dollying the cut metal edge over it & seam welding them together. The result was definitely worth spending a little time on, but doesn't really show in the pics. The trimmed down shell now looks properly finished, with the bottom rolling underneath, rather than just ending in a cut edge. A bit of flushing off with the flap wheel & it'll be very tidy.

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No I wasn't being sarky!

 ;D

While I'm buggering about with the bodywork, Taz has been busy stripping & rebuilding the Holley 4 barrel carb I bought from Brock's mate Neil. We've checked the model numbers & it's a 4160 390cfm with vacuum secondary. According to the websites we visited, that's ideal for road & sports use on "small" V8s, such as our 3 1/2 litre Rover. 3,500cc equals 213.5 cubic inch by the way. Taz's Dodge Charger has a 383ci motor.
I cleaned off the blue paint & lightly polished the ally body with a dab of Solvol chrome cleaner, before Taz fitted the rebuild kit. This carb's over 30 years old, but never actually been run on a car.

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hehe thats wot kitchens were made for!!! ;D ;D 8)

 ;D I do the washing up, she does the mechanicking.
A couple of false starts on the radiator grille mounting, but I think we've come up with the simplest method now.
Today I bent a couple of 3/4 inch bore ERW tubes & notched them to sit over the front chassis cross member. I drilled the bottom of them to pick up on the bottom radiator mounts, which are welded to the frame inside the grille. So the radiator & shell will be supported on these 2 legs. Just tacked in place at the moment to check it worked.