Manky Monkey Motors

Technical Section => Trike Tech => Topic started by: minimutly on July 31, 2019, 11:32:58 PM



Title: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on July 31, 2019, 11:32:58 PM
Well it's home. Pulled the plugs - 3 dry 1 wet. I did a cylinder leakage check, the oily one (no1) made 10% efficiency, cyl 2 made 90%, the other 2 arond 50%.
So it's boogad. Not sure at the mo whether to buy a motor or rebuild?
Pics will be up once I speak to our web hoster.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on August 01, 2019, 09:11:20 PM
How much is a replacement head?


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on August 02, 2019, 08:15:40 AM
Well here's the conundrum - it needs new pistons at least (all thme leakage is past them ). It might need sleeves. Which is a major stripdown.
So I' thinking a replacement engine for now, then maybe strip this one.
Bah


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on September 11, 2019, 08:50:03 PM
Engine in bits, two liners stuffed, plus pistons. I'm currently assembing a hydraulic puller to  extract the liners, 10T should do it?
If replacing the liners fails it's a replacement engine. Gearbox etc is good, so fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on September 18, 2019, 08:10:43 PM
Quick update on this - the damaged liners came out by running a die grinder up each one, and a block of wood and three taps each later they were out.
I've bough a used top half for the liners, so waiting for it to turn up.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on September 18, 2019, 08:27:04 PM
So not quite the end for that motor yet then. :)


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on September 28, 2019, 10:13:09 PM
A Used top casing with four good liners in it has turned up finally. Tomorrow I'll finish rigging up the hydraulic puller to extract a couple of them, if all is well and goes to plan by tomorrow afternoon I'll have a usable block again. Then a quick list of any bits I need to rebuild, order and then clean and rebuild.
Still a long way to go - I haven't spent any time or money on these bits just in case the liner swap failed miserably, but I am optimistic it will come off. Bearing shells, timing chains and tensioners, clutch, seals, coolant inserts (in the heads) are all to be assessed. I know, it would be cheaper to get a used engine, but that's a risk in itself.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on September 29, 2019, 09:03:55 AM
I admire your patience Sir -I'd have thrown a tantrum & hit it with a hammer by now!


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on September 29, 2019, 02:51:15 PM
Hah, maybe, but I haven't spent howmany years? Building then rebuilding a v8 pickup, so don't do yourself down.
All 4 liners are out, the homemade contraption to hold the 10 ton hydraulic puller did the trick, even with boiling water they all came with a bang, 4 year old grandson on the pump, me on the boiling water.
I've run a hone up and down the 3 best ones, will warm the block up later and attempt to bang them in - fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on September 29, 2019, 09:16:55 PM
Well you live and learn. The vmax liners are finish machined in the block - that is they're honed and surface machined at the top.
Finish honing shouldn't be an issue - ive measured up the block and except for the bottom 1/4 it's round and parallel, the issue is the tops. The liners are "top hat" liners, meaning they're held by a wide bit at the top, the trouble is they will stick out of my block by 9 thou or so. I measured the ones I removed, they're not even consistent around the circumference - one of them varies by 3 thou.
So, I'm going to have to make a jig to mount the v4 block in the miller, set the whole lot level and true, and fingers crossed run a flycutter across the top of the rear pair. Bugger.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: BikerGran on September 30, 2019, 11:33:56 AM
At least it sounds like you know how to sort it, even if it's bit of a pain!


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on October 02, 2019, 03:38:15 PM
Any more progress Mr Mutt?


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on October 02, 2019, 06:33:30 PM
Tried to look for a mount to machine the tops - the problem is it's a big old casting, and has to be tilted at 70 degrees, so it needs to be 6 inches or so off the deck. Current favourite is an old k series  head with a pair f 70 degree slopes cut into it.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on October 04, 2019, 10:32:49 PM
The saga continues, the inverter running my miller has gone poof while machining an inverted "v" onto the face of the k series head...
Currently looking at a new inverter.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on October 05, 2019, 01:58:37 AM
Don't you just love this hobby :)


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: triker_Chewie on October 06, 2019, 12:58:16 AM
thats one of my endless issues
to fix the the thing i need to fix the thing that fixes the thing


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on October 08, 2019, 01:50:23 PM
 ;D


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on October 08, 2019, 04:39:44 PM
Well, the option would be to pay someone to do the work - where's the fun in that.
Just paid for the std footpegs and barake lever - the trike was fitted with forward controls - no good at all on the twisties of West Wales. I found out long ago that it was safest allways to be on the inside of the trike while cornering - any tightening curves, going a bit hot would be downright ring tightening if you weren't.
I plan on adding a long range tank, and keeping the forward controlls for trips allong the m4...


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Donut on January 31, 2020, 01:16:42 AM
I have 80% of a Vmax that I am away to sell if your interested?


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on January 31, 2020, 03:08:52 PM
Maybe, pm me with what you have, mileage, what you want for it, and where you are?


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on April 18, 2020, 10:47:35 PM
You never pm'd me donut?
Anyway, after replacing the two rear liners on the v4 and skimming both banks flat, finally got 'round to looking for replacement shell bearings for the crank etc.
Well would you believe it - I must have been blind or drunk when I inspected it - the crank is boogared, 3 thou of wear on the end bearings...
So I bought a replacement engine, fingers crossed etc. Sure I may still fix and refit the original engine, but the summer is coming, will need to go shopping etc...
So far I have fitted the ebay engine, found a bolt loose in the generator cover, dropped the sump, fixed the oil pipe issue, checked the valve clearances, changed the flywheel and starter clutch. It runs, quite well I think, the seller removed the water elbow so it leaks water, he removed the driveshaft uj, so it's tight after me fitting mine. I've remade the forward controls to dual, the work really well, but the pedal is pants.
Happy to send pics to the ever helpful Andy, I've given up trying to post direct.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on April 19, 2020, 07:17:26 AM
I'll PM you my email address matey.
We can only post JPEG format here, about 600 x 600.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on April 19, 2020, 09:19:29 PM
Your memory must be failing you Andy, you've done this for me before! But then you have so many children to look after, some of us a bit thick.

Anyway, today was a good day, actually rode the vmax for the first time - I can see why owners rave about them! Still some more dressing to do, brakes need improving. The irs doesn't seem to detract from the handling, other than maybe making it turn even harder. I'll have arms like a gorilla if I don't sort that out - leading link front end on the cards for next year...


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on April 20, 2020, 04:48:02 PM
:)


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on April 20, 2020, 04:49:41 PM
.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on April 20, 2020, 04:50:05 PM
.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on April 20, 2020, 11:39:38 PM
All thanks to Andy for resizing these, you are a star.
Nothing done on it today, time for a workshop clearout, and maybe tomorrow night make a new welding bench!


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on April 29, 2020, 09:20:28 AM
Progressas been slow on this - but it is progress. Carbs been off, one of the inlet boots hadn't seated properly, so it explains why I had difficulty fitting the filter box cover. The reason for removing them was the mixture screw on No3 had seized. Well I tried, failed and for now have given up - i'll need to look for another body, and if I'd persisted its likely I'd be looking for another body now...
So, rear brakes to sort, couple of engine mountings, then mot test time - if I can get a test booked.

Note for @morrag - hope you're doing OK both.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on May 03, 2020, 11:54:22 PM
Replaced the carbs and test run - it was fine, but didn't check balance. Removed all the wiring gubbins under the headstock - loads of plugs and sockets to go through and check. Got my clutch switch working, found that the load sensor/ map sensor was duff.
So it's back together for now, managed to work out how the hazard lights work, needed to fit a blinker relay.
Managed to bleed some air out of the rear callipers which has made the brakes work ok, still a touch long pedal, but we'll see once I put some miles on it.
Last job before mot is the engine mounts and side stiffening bars, fingers crossed for this week.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on May 04, 2020, 06:22:28 AM
Good work!
I've got a wiring kit for my truck -all the necessary relays & fuses on a pre-made board & each wire colour coded & of the right ampage rating, with it's name printed on the wire -left indicator live, left indicator earth etc. Cost 150 quid.
I'm still not going to attempt wiring it myself though! Electrics mean absolutely nothing to me.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: the coppersmith on May 04, 2020, 12:18:36 PM
Andy can you recall where this loom came from? I’m just about ready to tackle the wiggly wires 😱


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on May 04, 2020, 02:04:41 PM
It's American made. A company called Haywire.
I bought mine from Miles Sherlock at Jackhammer hotrod shop in Farnborough, Hants.



Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on May 07, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
Never made the mot test. Still need a m10 by 80mm bolt anda couple of captive nuts cutting out and replacing on the bolt in crossmember behind the exhausts, which means taking them off, dropping the water out again....


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on May 08, 2020, 10:11:21 AM
Bugger. Annoying, but not a major problem then.
At least there's no pressure to have it ready for the show season at the moment though :)


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on May 08, 2020, 09:28:36 PM
No, but I could use it for shopping....


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on May 08, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
:)


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike...
Post by: minimutly on May 17, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Did I share the findings of the inverter "failure" and fix? Perhaps not. Well here it is. After much looking I found a 240v 3 phase output inverter. I also did some research which told me this would run my miller if I fixed the voltage and reduced the frequency. I also meggered out the motor and the forward reverse circuit buried inside the 1950s Fritz Werner miller. Well what do you think - motor fine, control wiring pooped. So all along I was blaming my inverter (and not just this one, but the one before as well) when it was the machine wiring with the issue.
So yesterday I put the 240 in 500v out inverter back together (its a Parker SSD embedded in some diode doubling trickery). Refitted it, stood back and away it went...
Next job was to try it on the Atlas Copco vtwin silent compressor - full tank in less than a minute - if anything it's too fast (i think), but without a rev counter or my meter to check Hz I can't be sure. The plan is to set the Hz, check the ac voltage and see what it is. I suspect a 50 Hz it will be high 500s, which isn't good, but there is no way to reduce it that I can see. I could of course swap the motor to star connections, especially given the ends are outside in the control box anyway. Hmmmm....
Oh, trike still waiting me to spend another afternoon under the front wheel, and my back is killing me again.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: stinkey on May 17, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Sounds wonderfully interesting and amazing but I haven't got a clue what your on about? 🤣😎


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on May 17, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
Yeah Ok, I'll stop - it's a bit of a long saga anyway. Trike wise, has anyone got one of those Hewland reversing gearboxes for sale- you know, the yellow ones? The vmax is bloomin heavy to push.
And finally, bike wise, l have decided to ditch the cheap chinese pod filters on my pre div xj650 and fit an xj600 airbox - it fits my carbs, might fit in the frame and is a lot bigger and nicer than the 650 one. Only problem is it might be engine out to fit it. Scrub that - it IS engine out to fit it...


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Donut on May 24, 2020, 08:47:16 AM
Oh me Minimutly I hang my head in shame apologies for not getting back. Everything hit the fan at the same time then Covid19 and I got stuck abroad etc etc. Glad you are making progress and it looks damn good so far. You are now making me think about triking my Vmax now!!


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on May 24, 2020, 08:32:23 PM
It is one hairy trike ride, I think I did the right thing keeping normal and forward controls. The spung rear end just works, means I don't dodge road imperfections  any more.
Don't worry about not getting back - life is a bit chaotic right now.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on June 25, 2020, 10:35:57 PM
Bits getting done on this - still not mot'd it though.
New front tyre fitted (old one cracked), this week I decided to move the mudguard bracket because it was pulling the handbrake cable to one side, which was giving me a long brake pedal. Also to move the mudguards in by 18mm, in the past it looks like someone replaced the wheels with more insety ones. In doing this I found the mother and father of all brackets - solid steel 15mm rods, steel 40mm by 6mm bar, the thing weighed a ton. So I invested in some holes, and made a load of thick 24mm washers. It's back on tonight but really, too hot to work.
Other job on half is to remove the front crossmember to weld in a pair of captive nuts - the original engine mountings weren't doing anything but looking good. The crossmember is welded, painted and back on, still need to fit the mounts one side and both exhausts. Oh, I changed the oil filter while it was off.
Busy but no cigar...


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on July 01, 2020, 10:18:16 PM
Mot and tax today - yay. ;D


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on July 02, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Passed?


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on July 05, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Passed and now taxed - £51 if I recall. Woohoo I think the term is, but strangely I'm,not feeling it. Will use it as the rules allow.
 I have a raft of plans for it over the winter - replace and reposition the unbelievably loud Harley sidepipes, fit a leading link front end maybe with bigger front wheel, fit some sort of reverse gearbox, improved seats, second fuel tank (part of the reason to move the "silencers", move and lighten the mudguards, the brackets are unbelievably heavy.


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: Manky Monkey on July 05, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
Ha ha! Been there a million times -all finished & ready to go, but already planning the new "improved" version :)
Well congratulations on getting it legal anyway. Put some miles on it & you'll either find the faults aren't so bad, or your To Do list will grow twice as long :)


Title: Re: Yamaha vmax 1200 trike....
Post by: minimutly on July 22, 2020, 11:33:33 PM
Found the first and potentially most serious weak spot - the rear lower wishbones are badly designed. One cracked and bent - lucky it didn't collapse, the other side bent.
So, the arm has been off, I've replaced two of the elements with 34mm od instead of the inch, added a plate to spread the load. Still not happy, the shock mounting is around 1/3rd the way out, but changing this would mean cutting the top arms as well. Bugger.