Manky Monkey Motors

Technical Section => Bike Tech => Topic started by: the coppersmith on November 04, 2018, 09:00:17 PM



Title: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 04, 2018, 09:00:17 PM
I have bought Andys bike, I love it. I hate it, I love it a bit more again tonight. Andy pointed out a oil leak , small insignificant weep. Well it got a tad worse, dripped on the exhaust and stunk. Found it to be a oilseal on the cam behind the timing assembly. Whatever you do beware of turning the engine, Andy warned. Well I didnt turn the engine, but the rotor did turn. Panic, yep Panic. So I went to retime it, no timing marks on the aftermarket alternator !! Back to old school, thing down the plug hole and feel the piston rising blowing so its a compression stroke (found out it makes no difference) set the rotor and test, fingers and bits crossed, I kicked it, it kicked me back !! Slight adjustment and it fired up, oh what joy. So Andy isn't pushing it around Basingstoke after dark, I am pushing it around Plymouth. Saying that, it has attracted some admiring glances from the fellow bikers in the area. So many thanks Andy. Now then, this Pop up for grabs yet ?? ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 04, 2018, 09:22:51 PM
Ahh, the joys of bike ownership! :)
Glad you got it sorted Steve.
Less tinkering, more riding! :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 04, 2018, 09:26:21 PM
I do enjoy a good tinkle.  ;D clocked over 100 miles Andy, oh no oil leak, joy oh joy, did you know you are meant to seal the screws as well that hold the back plate on, well they are now  ;D ;D ;


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 05, 2018, 07:00:51 AM
Steve..tinkering and a tinkle are two different things ( in my world anyway ::)) and a tinkle is a bodily function  ;D
Maybe pushing and kick starting the bike caused that? :D
Glad your enjoying the chop,I've been in the same boat as Andy and sold off some projects which I've partially regretted ? And often wonder what happened to them ?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 05, 2018, 09:43:59 AM
Yeah, I'm really pleased you're getting out & about on it Steve -we need some photos next time :)
I'd spent so long wrestling -& tinkering with the thing, that all the enjoyment had gone for me. Makes me happy to see it finally sorted though. :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 05, 2018, 11:52:28 AM
heres a question, being slightly old world and from a scramble back ground and fast road bikes. This raked front end? any tips on cornering, just sees to drop in a bit quick. Or is it me?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 05, 2018, 04:45:44 PM
Well hardtail chops are a whole new ball game dude..I once rode one everyday around London and taking those back street turns/bends was easier if I went quick and low..great fun 8)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: BikerGran on November 05, 2018, 07:37:13 PM
I expect it's just a matter of getting used to it.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 05, 2018, 08:04:16 PM
Yeah, I've had a lot of hardtails chops over the years & I guess you just get used to it. As Stinkey says, dropping low into the corners does help
The forks are standard length but there's 7 of rake in the headstock so it sits lower than a standard XS.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: morrag on November 05, 2018, 08:47:14 PM
And that is what makes it "flop" in to corners, not the hard tail, that's irrelevant, bit like a super market trolley in principle ;)...Morrag


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 05, 2018, 09:06:38 PM
It's the trail that's making it flop..you'd need to do some major headstock work to get it handling more to your liking?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 05, 2018, 09:46:55 PM
It rode just fine.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Olds on November 06, 2018, 08:00:12 AM
The Frog doesn't have excessive rake. At +7 it's almost the same as my XVS650 (35).  More rake and trail make forks flop into corners if going very slow (pulling away at T junctions), but should make it more stable at higher speeds.
You just need to ride it like you stole it.  ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 06, 2018, 09:47:40 AM
Exactly..the more you Rag it.the better 8)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 06, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
I sort of hoped it was me, but thought I'd try to be old and logical  ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 06, 2018, 04:08:46 PM
How old is old?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 06, 2018, 06:54:02 PM
well I had a brand new Honda 750 when they first came to these shores. That was back in 69-70. Old enough to have ridden scrambles not Moto-X, and went to Brands every Easter for the match races with the Yanks.
 ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: BikerGran on November 06, 2018, 07:51:37 PM
Haha we used to have family outings to Scrambles meetings, all over the midlands, followed our favourite riders and even ate in a cafe in Nailsworth that belonged to one of them (no idea what his name was, like you it's rather a long time ago!) on the way home from a Gloucestershire meet.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 06, 2018, 10:04:52 PM
I remember the Transatlantic bike races at Thruxton in the early 80s.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 07, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
I used to production race at Thruxton, in the days when you rode up, taped up you headlamps, raced twice and rode home. Went on to hillclimbs at Wiscombe park, with limited success. I had "Berg Spider" thruxton Bonneville. Evil handling, the old Triumph whip swinging arm. Great days, then the jap invasion came and I just wasnt competitive. 


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Olds on November 07, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
then the jap invasion came. 
Had a RD Yam in the late 70's that was built for production racing at Thruxton.  Bloody awful as a road bike. Uncomfortable, unreliable, narrow power band, limited steering lock and noisy as hell, but oh so much fun on the ring road.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 08, 2018, 12:03:30 AM
:) I had a Thruxton tuned 750 Bonny engine in my '66 Triumph when I was in my early 20s.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: triker_Chewie on November 09, 2018, 11:47:10 PM
i had thruxton once but an ointment cleared it up



coat?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 10, 2018, 07:17:33 AM
It's a brain wasting condition so no amount of ointment will work ? ::)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 10, 2018, 12:06:16 PM

It's a brain wasting condition so no amount of ointment will work ? ::)

Well, it took a few lumps of flesh off my arse when I threw it up the road a few times  ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 10, 2018, 09:29:33 PM
pigging bike !! >:(
running ok, then started misfire. switched lights to side light and it ran, put back on main and it died. Luckily not far from home so candle power got it home. EH ??


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: BikerGran on November 11, 2018, 04:12:45 PM
That's just what happened with my little Yam when the generator was fading when hot - but doesn't frog have electronic ignition?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 11, 2018, 08:38:05 PM
just for something to do, I charged the battery, just been out and about on it, and its fine ?? lights are great, bike ran great, wonder if the alternator is not quite chucking enough charge into the battery. I will look at it, sometime, having fun with it, that is what counts  ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 11, 2018, 08:38:42 PM
Oh, and no more oil leak Andy.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 11, 2018, 09:26:00 PM
Hurrah! One problem solved at least.
I had an oil leak but it ran fine.
Pretty sure the brand new permanent magnet alternator puts out more power than the standard one. If I remember right you can run it without a battery if you want. Tom fitted it, but he's on holiday at the moment.
I'll look out all the bike related paperwork I have & send it to you.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: BikerGran on November 12, 2018, 10:38:31 AM
just for something to do, I charged the battery, just been out and about on it, and its fine ?? lights are great, bike ran great, wonder if the alternator is not quite chucking enough charge into the battery.

Loose connection somewhere?  Intermittent faults are the worst!


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 12, 2018, 05:19:00 PM
been fussing, the alternator seems to be kicking out 11.26 volts. Then you blip it and it chucks out 13.4 volts. But it needs a few revs to get it going, then its fine. Time to stop poodling around on it then   ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 12, 2018, 05:20:36 PM
And do what? Push it about again? Oh no! :o


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: BikerGran on November 12, 2018, 05:44:12 PM
No, rag the arse off it!

 ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on November 12, 2018, 07:17:43 PM
Sound advice! :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: morrag on November 12, 2018, 08:09:50 PM
11.26v at 'tick-over' speed is insufficient to keep your battery fully charged, hence the miss fires. At a tick-over speed of possibly nom. 800 rpm, you should be developing in excess of 13V dc, progressing to 14.5v dc, at 5000rpm plus, all voltages/RPM's nominal, of course, anything much over 15v will destroy your battery, and would generally indicate a knackered Reg./ Rect. unit anyway. If Mr.M can find the original data sheets for the PMA system you have fitted, you can then be more specific with the figures, but you should not need to screw the motor just to get a sufficient charge rate, that's why we abandoned Dynamos ;) ;) ;)...Morrag


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on November 12, 2018, 08:12:16 PM
Nice bit of advice Mr Morrag..even I understood it ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Tony oily bike on November 12, 2018, 10:37:53 PM
Any use..............??

http://www.mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=j15679aiq35t12h5jho5870lk1&topic=7916.1920

https://www.hughshandbuilt.com/product/complete-xs650-pma-system/

https://www.hughshandbuilt.com/2017/01/25/mosfet-regulators-why/


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: minimutly on November 12, 2018, 10:54:48 PM
Old yamahas never charged the battery under 1300 rpm - your pmg unit might be different, but it doesn't sound like it. My xj needs 1300 rpm...


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: morrag on November 12, 2018, 11:59:42 PM
That's the reason for a change to a PMA device, over the previous separately excited type of alternator, and which will certainly charge in excess of 13v dc from relatively low RPM! The outline values I have given, whilst not particular to this machine, are certainly, as a general application, a fact, and as such obtainable. Indeed for trouble free use, this is what should be aimed for,  ;)..Morrag


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Olds on November 13, 2018, 06:19:13 AM
For some reason my trike is exactly the same. On start up ign./charge light stays on until the engine is blip'd or reaches about 2000 revs then it's fine even at tickover (13.6v) so have never worried about it.
I've never measured the output voltage at higher rpm but seeing as I've knackered a couple of batteries perhaps I should.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: morrag on November 13, 2018, 01:34:50 PM
That's usually the case if you have a servo/electric voltage regulator in circuit, as opposed to fully solid state, unlikely in your case, I would guess, Dave, but worth checking, as is the over voltage control settings if you are going through batteries. What size/type of battery do you use?... Morrag


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on November 13, 2018, 02:31:54 PM
Thank you all for your input, see how I used the word "input" anyway, pleased to say since I charged the battery it is fine. Showing a good charge rate etc. Hopefully just a teething problem, not understanding these modern bits and pieces. Starting first and second kick, and the lights are now good. I have some technical reading to do, To understand what you are all on about.  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on December 14, 2018, 07:14:34 PM
Frog update: well its idle in the cave at present. I have put it on sorn, getting a tad chilly for my old bones. Lat trip of the year I rode it to Bude and back 85 miles of lovely Devon roads. Got about 20 miles away from home on the return trip and noticed the smell !! Oil leak returned from cam oil seal. Drips on to the casing and the exhaust and stinks. Plus it gets on your boot, your jeans, your socks and on my nerves !!. A quick wipe with some bracken leaves and carried on home gingerly. At least my left boot or my left ankle will go rusty, long story shortened. The seal failed again. Asked advice of experts, need a silicone one, they are orange in colour. Bearing shop had them on the shelf !! Then I had a message from a XS650 guru, pointing me to a Dutch builder, power of the internet kicks in and 3 days later I have a genuine Yamaha oil seal. Noticed that it is a lot thicker, a lot more flexible and is double lipped. So over the next month or so I will try again. Love the bike, people pass good comments. Roll on spring  ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on December 14, 2018, 07:38:43 PM
.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on December 14, 2018, 07:39:50 PM
not all about the bike either  ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on December 14, 2018, 07:41:11 PM
Must be warm down there ? Glad your riding the frog..


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on December 15, 2018, 10:16:58 AM
You're braver than me, still riding in December :)
Usually when I sell vehicles, they disappear, never to be seen again. I'm glad this one stayed "in the family" so we'll get to see an update once in a while.
Thanks Steve :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: minimutly on December 15, 2018, 10:36:50 PM
Maybe you just have to be selective to pick the right day, and the right time of day at that.
And coppersmith, where's your stool, you'll kill your knees like that ;)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on December 27, 2018, 01:48:24 PM
genuine Yamaha double lipped cam oil seal, verses the one from ebay. The thicker one is the correct seal. Same OD but it fits so much better on the cam, hopefully this is the last problem.  :o Oh dear, did I say that ?? ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on December 27, 2018, 05:49:49 PM
Ha ha! Yeah, I used to say stuff like that! :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 02, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
nice day, gave it a bit of air


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 02, 2019, 08:16:25 PM
.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 02, 2019, 08:17:19 PM
just in case you are missing it Andy  ;D ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on January 02, 2019, 09:04:28 PM
Hello baby. :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 03, 2019, 11:52:21 AM
 ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on January 03, 2019, 03:36:01 PM
Did ya ride it dude ?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 03, 2019, 04:44:49 PM
yep, close on 200 miles now, longest trip was 40 miles one way then home again once my bottle came back  :D now on sorn for the winter, yeah bit of a wimp I know, plus the oil seal saga.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: BikerGran on January 03, 2019, 06:45:23 PM
Nope, not a wimp - I bet you've been there and done that, and don't need to prove anything - I felt the same myself before I had to stop riding!


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on January 04, 2019, 07:59:50 AM
Ya not a wimp dude ya rode it,I'm envious of anybody who can ride in the colder months..and we invented cars so we didn't get wet etc, most people are fairweather riders anyway :D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on January 04, 2019, 03:54:08 PM
I'm just pleased it went to someone who will ride it, rather than slowly fading away under a tarpaulin -the bike, not you Steve :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 04, 2019, 08:44:38 PM
today I felt like fading away, man flu  :(


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 04, 2019, 08:57:46 PM
bit of sun, and the toys are out side


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on January 05, 2019, 07:30:04 AM
Can I ask what's the wheel base on that car of yours ?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 05, 2019, 08:08:26 PM
I'll get back to you on that Stinkey  ???


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 06, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
93" or 2308mm in new money  ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on January 08, 2019, 08:01:46 AM
Cheers kind sir


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on January 28, 2019, 06:59:09 PM
Hey Steve, you're famous! :)
Spotted by a mate on Instagram.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 29, 2019, 11:20:03 AM
uhm ?? what is instagram? have I been hacked  :o


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on January 29, 2019, 12:09:11 PM
Don't worry, you've just been shared :)
Once you're on the interweb there's no telling where you'll pop up or who'll see it :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Tony oily bike on January 29, 2019, 01:57:14 PM
.... and once there, you're there,  "you can't un-ring the bell"......  :o


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on January 29, 2019, 05:53:38 PM
should I be alarmed


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 02, 2019, 08:26:10 PM
lovely day for a gentle run up the moors and back. Bleeding clutch has stuck, cannot move it. tried bumping it, just warmed it through in second gear, nothing. HELP!!!


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on February 02, 2019, 09:03:45 PM
?


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 02, 2019, 09:12:20 PM
not releasing Andy, tried all sorts. Just been told it should go if hot, seems the oil sticks the plates together, mind that is a facebook opinion  :o


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: terry t on February 02, 2019, 09:34:22 PM
not releasing Andy, tried all sorts. Just been told it should go if hot, seems the oil sticks the plates together, mind that is a facebook opinion  :o
Is there any adjustment on the clutch lifter pin.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on February 02, 2019, 09:52:34 PM
Used to have to free the plates off on my Bonnevilles by kicking them over with the clutch lever pulled in & ignition off.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Archie on February 14, 2019, 10:39:54 AM
is it leaking from the cam oil seal still? Saw this and thought of it - https://www.heidentuning.com/xs650-shop/engine/camshafts-camchains-valves-guides/camshaft-side-covers-aluminium-1-detail.html


DESCRIPTION
Sold as a set (2 pc.)
Only for XS models with the ignition on the crank!
Stops oil leak problems on the camshaft.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on February 14, 2019, 01:52:51 PM
No good unfortunately -the ignition's fired off a pick-up where the points used to be.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 21, 2019, 06:14:27 PM
nice sunny spring day, took the frog for a not so gentle run. Got home to discover something missing !!


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 21, 2019, 06:15:58 PM
so retraced my steps, and lo and behold I found it in the gutter, unharmed but lonely  :D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 21, 2019, 06:16:30 PM
good vibrations................nope


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on February 21, 2019, 08:04:59 PM
Oh Jeez! It's still fighting every step of the way isn't it!


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 22, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
Yep, every step Andy. Wouldnt want it any other way  :D Oil leak fixed, indicator wiring fixed again. Re timed and starts first poke. Oh and the circlip on the kickstart tried to make a run for it, but I caught it in time. Just bedding in problems, nothing horrid. Engine runs good, starting to get a feel for the handling, roll on hot summer, Please.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on February 22, 2019, 04:08:43 PM
It's a lovely riding day here today & it's forecast to be nice all weekend -enjoy! :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on February 22, 2019, 07:45:00 PM
A worms eye view


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on April 24, 2019, 07:41:26 PM
just so you all know its still alive and fighting every step. Clutch stuck again, no more adjustment left on cable. Dig deeper. Head gasket leaking oil from ca chain area, seems a common fault. Fed up??? no, still teething trouble. Getting there, work in progress You all know the score


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on April 25, 2019, 05:02:23 PM
I admire your tenacity Sir
Id've set fire to it by now.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Tony oily bike on April 26, 2019, 01:02:14 PM
I admire your tenacity Sir
Id've set fire to it by now.

Gives a whole new meaning to doing a burnout.......... :D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on April 27, 2019, 07:19:20 PM
arghhhh!!! To change the head gasket, looking like a fuel tank off job, nope. Looking more like an engine out job. Starting to feel your pain Andy. New genuine gasket from Holland has arrived. Heres to next weeks work  >:(


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on April 28, 2019, 08:54:16 AM
:) I was at Archie's house last night. He now has several XS chops on the go. I think they'll always be my favourite bikes, but I must admit I feel no compulsion to get back on one at all. I've done my time with bikes now.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on May 10, 2019, 07:22:59 PM
. Running well  ;D


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on May 10, 2019, 07:23:34 PM
recaptured my yuff !!


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on May 11, 2019, 06:16:27 PM
Lookin' good my friend! :)


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: stinkey on May 13, 2019, 07:44:17 AM
At least you have still got your hair 😁


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on June 10, 2019, 11:39:28 PM
Don't want to steal your thunder Steve, but lovely shot of you & the bike :)
Lookin' good.


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on June 11, 2019, 07:17:32 PM
OH SIR, i'M BLUSHING.  :o


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: the coppersmith on June 11, 2019, 07:20:25 PM
I was getting ready to pull it apart, get this head oil leak thing sorted. And the wife popped in a took this. I still havent pulled it apart. Seems a shame too, but that bloody leak is getting more as the bike gets used and gets hotter


Title: Re: junkyard frog
Post by: Manky Monkey on June 11, 2019, 08:24:59 PM
It definitely got rattlier on the top end in the 6 months I was riding it, so I guess it needs to be sorted, but it'll be a bugger to get the motor out without destroying the paintwork. XS motors weigh a bloomin' ton too.