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Title: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on July 25, 2017, 11:03:06 PM The Independent Online New diesel and petrol cars and vans will be banned from 2040 as part of efforts to tackle air pollution, the Government is expected to announce. A £255m fund is expected to be unveiled to help councils speed up local measures to deal with pollution from diesel vehicles, as part of £3bn spending on air quality. Yet critics said the 2040 ban was "too little too late", with the Liberal Democrats calling for new diesel sales to end by 2025. The Government is set to include the measures in a court-mandated clean air strategy due to be published on Wednesday, just days before the deadline set by the High Court. The expected move to ban petrol and diesel vans and cars follows similar plans announced in France this month and amid increasing signs that the shift to electric vehicles is accelerating. On Tuesday, BMW announced plans for an electric Mini to be assembled at its Oxford plant while earlier this month Volvo unveiled its moves towards cleaner cars. The Government was ordered to produce new plans to tackle illegal levels of harmful pollutant nitrogen dioxide after the courts agreed with environmental campaigners that a previous set of plans were insufficient to meet EU pollution limits. Despite government efforts to delay publication of the plans until after the general election, ministers were forced to set out the draft plans in May, with the final measures due by July 31. It is thought ministers will also consult on a diesel scrappage scheme to take the dirtiest vehicles off the road. Campaigners have demanded the final plans should include government-funded and mandated clean air zones, with charges for the most polluting vehicles to enter areas with high air pollution, as well as a diesel scrappage scheme. Their calls for charging zones were backed up by an assessment published alongside the draft plans which suggested they were the most effective measures to tackle nitrogen dioxide, much of which comes from diesel vehicles. But ministers have been wary of being seen to "punish" drivers of diesel cars, who they claim bought the vehicles in good faith after being encouraged to by the last Labour government on the basis they produced lower carbon emissions. They favour local measures such as retrofitting buses and other transport to make them cleaner, changing road layouts and even altering features such as speed humps and re-programming traffic lights to make traffic flow more smoothly to reduce pollution. The expected move to ban diesel and petrol cars and vans by 2040 comes after similar plans were announced in France this month and amid increasing signs that the shift to electric vehicles is accelerating, with BMW announcing plans for an electric Mini and Volvo unveiling its moves towards cleaner cars. Air pollution is linked to around 40,000 premature deaths a year in the UK, and transport also makes up a significant share of greenhouse gas emissions. A government spokesman said: "Poor air quality is the biggest environmental risk to public health in the UK and this government is determined to take strong action in the shortest time possible. "That is why we are providing councils with new funding to accelerate development of local plans, as part of an ambitious £3bn programme to clean up dirty air around our roads. "Our plan to deal with dirty diesels will help councils clean up emissions hotspots – often a single road – through common sense measures which do not unfairly penalise ordinary working people. "Diesel drivers are not to blame and, to help them switch to cleaner vehicles, the Government will consult on a targeted scrappage scheme, one of a number of measures to support motorists affected by local plans." Co-leader of the Green Party Caroline Lucas welcomed the change, but said a scrappage scheme and other measures were needed immediately to reduce emissions. The Liberal Democrat shadow transport secretary Jenny Randerson said: “By scrapping the scrappage scheme the government have U-turned on their offer a life line to the millions of owners of diesel cars up and down the country. This is a betrayal to drivers everywhere. “Air pollution is poisoning our children and leading to causing avoidable deaths across the country. Instead of properly fighting this silent killer the government has flip-flopped, offering tax breaks for cars that they are now banning. The governments feeble attempts to tackle air pollution are too little too late. “The government needs to take drastic action to end this public health crisis, every moment they sit on their hands more people are breathing in and dying from polluted air. “The Liberal Democrats have called for all new diesel sales to end by 2025 and a scrappage scheme to help drivers convert to greener vehicles. We are serious about fighting air pollution, this government is not.” Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: the coppersmith on July 26, 2017, 09:39:27 AM I recently had a welding job at the local Tungsten Mine, they have electric trucks about the size of Suzuki vans. No trouble with pulling a welding plant and loads of welding leads around. The site engineer reckons they are good for 50mph but only last about 70 miles before needing the charge, so basically useless then on a trip. We joked about solar panels on the roof keeping them going. Interested in using one in the kit car, seems there is a Welsh kit car with electric motor to standard gearbox around, will try to find a link. On the plus side 2040 is a long way off, I doubt I'll be fit to drive then :D
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: JayJay on July 27, 2017, 12:05:45 AM ... On the plus side 2040 is a long way off, I doubt I'll be fit to drive then :D That's what I was thinking. My diesel car will be long gone by then. Somehow I don't think it will be a "Classic". I would be 80 so probably dead or away with the fairies and oblivious of the Government's (if we even have one by then) motoring and/or environmental policies. Even though it was a previous Government that encouraged us to buy diesels because of their low emissions. Yep, we should always trust what they say. They always know what's best for us! :-\ However, in the mean time all these pols and bigwigs are happy to jet around the world, raining jet fuel wherever they go on the people below but nobody seems bothered by that. Anyone who goes to the Kempton Jumble knows you can even taste the jet fuel in the air. Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: BikerGran on July 27, 2017, 09:26:36 AM I won't be around to worry about it!
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: dr big750 on July 27, 2017, 11:34:06 AM How will the goverment pull in tax if no petrol or diesel fuel to tax to the last lol
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: the coppersmith on July 27, 2017, 12:02:32 PM I may invent the horse and trap, make a mint and sell the "by product" to make methane. Fossil fuel? time some person cleverer then me got their thinking cap on, Hydrogen?
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Baychimp on July 27, 2017, 06:43:40 PM What I find funny is the two party's that are most eager to implement this,if given the job wouldn't have a clue how to go about it.
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: BikerGran on July 27, 2017, 08:00:18 PM How will the goverment pull in tax if no petrol or diesel fuel to tax to the last lol They haven't taxed the air we breath yet................... Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Olds on July 28, 2017, 06:09:53 AM How will the goverment pull in tax if no petrol or diesel fuel to tax to the last lol They haven't taxed the air we breath yet................... Shush BG. Don't give them ideas ! I have no idea why most parties involved are pushing the battery electric agenda. As I understand it, at the moment there is no large scale process or facilities for recycling the types of battery used in these vehicles. There isn't even a standard type of battery and each type would likely need a very different process. It seems to me that at our present level of technology, the use of Hydrogen in a combustion engine would be the most obvious choice, though we would have to accept a reduction in power output to get nitrogen dioxide emissions to a near zero level. Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on July 28, 2017, 06:25:26 AM Since when has any government had any clue about the real world ? They will £@&! Up your life every time and charge you for the privilege ,I've seen what hydrogen power can do and still keep the engines we have,combine it with an electrical motor maybe ? And BG if they could they would ?
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: melosman on July 29, 2017, 06:21:42 PM So let's presume diesel/petrol car production stops in 2040 and all new vehicles will be electric, what happens to all the petrol and diesel vehicles that are on the road.
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on July 29, 2017, 07:26:05 PM Presumably they'll be taxed off the road.
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on July 29, 2017, 07:46:39 PM So let's presume diesel/petrol car production stops in 2040 and all new vehicles will be electric, what happens to all the petrol and diesel vehicles that are on the road. Hot rodders will have converted them into something else? ::)Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: minimutly on July 29, 2017, 10:44:35 PM Well i read it as petrol and diesel only, meaning petrol or diesel hybrids will be fine?
If I'm wrong, there will be less and less fuel available daily, which means it will cost more, which will drive everyone to Scalextrix cars, eventually petrol and diesel will be so difficult to get and costly, it wont be worth bothering with.... I do think that hydrogen might be the answer though, well that and maybe a horse and cart. It's a pity the politicians don't sort out the real isues though, diesel busses and taxies in the cities? Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: minimutly on July 29, 2017, 10:46:12 PM Actually, if the politicians get what they want, it will be funny as hell, London will be buried under a mountain of horse s**t..
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: dr big750 on July 30, 2017, 05:20:46 AM I reckon they will do the same as always, give the idea that it is the cheap and cleaner option, then hit it with an extreme amount of tax, eg. electric prices will rise to extortionative (is that the correct word) levels, so charging your new electric car costs as much as a fill of fuel
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Plasticpig on July 30, 2017, 04:57:16 PM According to the daily rags, the target for the last sale of petrol and diesel cars, will be 2040. Some commenters said that market trends might force it to happen earlier if the uptake of alternative vehicles was greater. There is no mention of lorries, vans, buses or trains. Reading the comments from readers of those rags, the main point brought up was where is the electricity going to come from to power just the cars, and is everyone going to have a cable going out to their car, perhaps blocking the pavement. Also a lot of people do not have a parking space, or live in flats, ect.
There is a lot of controversy about Hinkley Point power station, and it turns out that to run all of the projected vehicles, it would need another six or seven nuclear power stations which is going to cause a big old stink. Unless they have a new power source sitting in a warehouse somewhere, there is going to be a period when people cannot get to work or leisure. Its seems as if the powers that be have not thought out any of this, and were only forced to announce these new rules by a court case and threats by the EU over air quality. Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on July 30, 2017, 05:46:36 PM According to the daily rags, the target for the last sale of petrol and diesel cars, will be 2040. Some commenters said that market trends might force it to happen earlier if the uptake of alternative vehicles was greater. There is no mention of lorries, vans, buses or trains. Reading the comments from readers of those rags, the main point brought up was where is the electricity going to come from to power just the cars, and is everyone going to have a cable going out to their car, perhaps blocking the pavement. Also a lot of people do not have a parking space, or live in flats, ect. There is a lot of controversy about Hinkley Point power station, and it turns out that to ru all of the projected vehicles, it would need another six or seven nuclear power stations which is going to cause a big old stink. Unless they have a new power source sitting in a warehouse somewhere, there is going to be a period when people cannot get to work or leisure. Its seems as if the powers that be have not thought out any of this, and were only forced to announce these new rules by a court case and threats by the EU over air quality. Like I said politicians DO NOT have a clue ..I'm working on sources for my household energy which means very little outcome for me..and heck of it means buying a horse and cart as well then so be it? Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on July 30, 2017, 10:17:43 PM Presumably the Government could make up the lost revenue from fuel tax with road pricing -charging you for every mile travelled, which they've been talking about for ages. I guess electric vehicles would be easier to track & a monthly bill could be sent, or payment automatically deducted at source if you refused to pay. In fact, if every car had an individual electronic identity, you could probably "switch off" those that refused to pay or were banned from driving etc.
I'll be in my 80s by then & hopefully might've died during a drug fuelled orgy with 3 teenage prostitutes in a Vegas hotel room, so it probably won't affect me, but it'll be interesting to see how the Great Plan works out. Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: morrag on July 30, 2017, 10:30:26 PM Erm, I shall do my best not to be over concerned, on this issue!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on July 30, 2017, 11:04:56 PM Hopefully you won't need the drugs Andy ? ::)
And I'm with morrag on this one too Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: JayJay on July 30, 2017, 11:24:27 PM ... I'll be in my 80s by then & hopefully might've died during a drug fuelled orgy with 3 teenage prostitutes in a Vegas hotel room, so it probably won't affect me, but it'll be interesting to see how the Great Plan works out. Just make sure you are talking about at least 16 year old teenagers. You don't want to get a reputation. However, perhaps at 80 years old you'd just be over the moon to be able to take part in the orgy and not be too worried about getting arrested. ::) ;D Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on July 31, 2017, 09:24:56 AM Orgys aren't always what one expects ::)
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Plasticpig on July 31, 2017, 10:24:19 PM Andy. Will you still be able to get it up when you are eighty? Perhaps some blue tablets?
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on July 31, 2017, 11:04:16 PM :D We seem to have strayed a little off-topic!
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on August 01, 2017, 07:38:02 AM You started it mate ? ::)
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Olds on August 01, 2017, 08:22:42 AM Did I miss it ?
The orgy ! D'oh ! Really must read through posts fully. :D Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Stix on August 01, 2017, 08:38:54 AM If you are on fb I have just shared a video that if true would solve the fossil fuel powered engine problem overnight😱😱😱
Also posted it on my page John Stix page Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: morrag on August 01, 2017, 12:44:37 PM Whats "an orgy"? and...where am I?, and..why.... ???
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Stix on August 01, 2017, 02:34:36 PM Whats "an orgy"? and...where am I?, and..why.... ??? Wasn't he a cartoon character in bike magazine with a skinny mate called Malcolm??🤗🤗 Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on August 01, 2017, 02:42:00 PM :D
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=224595424673325&id=136340226832179 Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Olds on August 01, 2017, 05:55:34 PM Brown gas or HHO has been used for decades. It could possibly improve the efficiency of petrol engines by ensuring faster and more complete combustion of the normal fuel. Not sure how he could possibly run a car totally on this as the power required to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen is greater than can be generated by burning it.
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Archie on August 16, 2017, 07:24:22 AM http://www.speedhunters.com/2017/08/infiniti-prototype-9/
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Archie on September 08, 2017, 10:48:06 AM JAg /land rover classic works have developed and electric conversion kit for an e type
http://www.speedhunters.com/2017/09/e-type-zero-new-age-resto-blasphemy/ Makes more power than the original and utilities existing mounts so can be converted back Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on September 08, 2017, 12:31:38 PM A silent E type? That's so wrong :(
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: stinkey on September 08, 2017, 04:11:49 PM Bloody brilliant idea...
Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: JayJay on September 11, 2017, 06:44:47 PM I drive a diesel and I recently had a text from Citroën telling me the Scrappage-Scheme 2017 has just been announced. Hint hint me thinks. :-\
"This scheme is open to anyone with a vehicle more than seven years old, providing you’ve owned the vehicle for at least 90 days. We’re offering customers savings of between £1,600 and £6,400 on a new Citroën car and up to £7,000 on a commercial van. The scheme runs until 31st December 2017, so there’s plenty of time to find the right Citroën model to suit your needs." Title: Re: New fossil fuel cars banned from 2040? Post by: Manky Monkey on September 11, 2017, 09:32:18 PM Yeah, the official target date for the end of fossil fuel vehicles may be 2040, but once big businesses get behind it, (realising it'll open up a whole, huge new market for them), it'll happen a lot sooner. I'm sure the average bloke in the street, who just sees cars as a tool, not a way of life, will be very happy to trade his petrol model for a shiny new 'leccy one. Of course, he won't think about the cost of charging it suddenly sky rocketing the moment all the old models have gone :) -& they don't need to legislate us old school types off the road, simply reduce the availability of fuel & increase the cost, maybe by slapping an "enviromental tax" on fossil fuel :(
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