Manky Monkey Motors

Thinking of changing the axle on my gl1500 trike from swing arm setup to irs
not ridden a trike with irs what is the benefit's on this
The problem is I want to keep the panniers.
looking at a jag as this don't have a top wishbone. and moving the shocks in towards the diff.
will this work has any one got any idea's on axle and setup. or pictures
 

Try googling berrisford engineering, or autograss fabrication in general - the rwd cars have been using rose joint mounted swing arms, with ford type cv joints. There would be no issue with strength, but you'd need to fab up a mounting post across the chassis. You could use any suitable diff, probably the smaller the better?

you could make youre own IRS set up using sierra  or late granada diff and hubs etc  just build a mounting frame

it would be a lot cheaper and easier to source the bits rather than  jag ,

its well documented in the kit cat building world

i think you may encounter big problems moving jag shocks further inboard ..

Work from your tyres back ie make sure you can get the overall gearing you want in whatever you use.

I'm going to be watching this one Terry

Thanks for your replies
but a ford or bmw requires a top wish bone a I haven't the room for that setup as I want to keep the panniers
 

I'm sure I've seen a jag axle on a trike on here ?  ::) and very easy to mount..lots of diffierent gear ratios..and actually not that expensive for parts..well not from the guys I use ?

So have I ;D.  I've been trying to find the photos of this setup. found a guy in Ringwood that has a few axles

The point is though the jag setup is a little heavy for a small engined trike. The ford diff doesn't need top wishbones, you just need a single, stressed wishbone arm with a bearing carrier at the end, a'la truimph 2000, sierra? It really is very easy - isn't it?

Its a Honda Goldwing GL1500

Once again. How is a jag axle HEAVY..it's turning gears with rotation..if I can turn the diff flange with my hand and it moves easily..the reliant moves it easy too? And I've removed rather a lot of weight compared to an original reliant etc ? And I'm sure they even manage to tow things too ?
But obviously something lighter would be advantageous ..and yes I use the guys in Ringwood ..speak to Wil..nice chap very helpful ..

Thanks hope to be going there this week. is your guy in Boundary Way Ringwood?
If the jag setup won't fit with the panniers fitted. then I will keep the reliant axle on and work on the shocks

I use the guys at hollygrove jag ? So don't think it's boundary road (lane ?) there is a breakers yard in boundary road..which is 2 minutes from me..
And modifying jag shocks inboard is easy..I've also taken 6 inches out of my driveshafts/lower wishbones

Not mine, but something I had on file!...Morrag

Morrag. thanks but that setup wont work with the top wishbone as I want to keep the panniers

Stinkey that the look I'm after but with outboard disc full width axle but want to bring the top mounting for the shocks in towards the diff making a cradle across the top of the diff to hold then. tried adding a sketch but to large   

Full width jag axle is rather wide?..later jags are outboard discs..which means more weight bouncing up n Down on the wheel end ?..you can email me with your sketch ?

Thanks. I will scan it tomorrow at work then email it over
the one I tried to post from paint I lost it
Was told the diff is 35cm from drive flange to flange and 150cm wide for a xj6 model I think wont know until I go and have a look!

Tell me in inches and il understand you :o

Test photo
Jaguar axle fitted in a gl1500

Need to sort out the rear shocks but it set to the ride height I'm looking for

Shocks set up just need to lower the back end down. Also going to reduce the width of the axle by about 3" each side

Coo, you've been busy.
What's holding the drive shafts at that angle & giving you the positive camber Tel? Just the shocks? -will moving the bottom mounts allow the axle to settle? Would that lower the bike too far?

Yes it just the shocks holding it up. by putting smaller or lowering them will allow the back to come down bringing the wheel back in.
I'm waiting for some gl1100 air shocks to arrive so I can set them up have a looks.
This is what I'm looking to achieve  ;D But not the shinny look :D just the ride height


 

 :)

Well you could always mount the shocks on (longer bolts obviously ) the bottom hub ( outer ) especially if you shorten the wishbones ?

Pooh I just made a mess 😳😳😃😃😃

Don't forget you will need some panard rods to stop the lower wishbones from moving about ?

Thanks Mate. I am going to fit them  :),

It looks like the xj6 axle didn't have them fitted. may be because the wish bones are different oval in shape and the hub tips back slightly
or the cradle helped stabilize them
 

Maybe the anti roll bar I can see did the same job ?

The shocks came today so made the lower mounts while I'm waiting for my mate to give the axle cradle some deep penetration with his rods  :o .then I can start to put this together. hope to have it back on the road for Popham mega bike meet in August.

I'd brace that shock mount if I was you dude ?

Thanks its just sitting across the diff not fixed yet. it will be bolted to the cradle

My mate came round today and brought these  carriers for the new wishbones.

Sounds interesting ? :)

Done some more to the Trike. Axle is now setup air shock fitted and pumped up. so its holding its own. just need to sort the fixing bolts out. re positioning the exhaust system using the gap where the wheel used to be. exhausts and brake lines on order.

The new exhaust system came today.

Been cutting and fitting ready for welding up. keeping it all tucked in where the bike wheel used to be.

Looks nice & compact Terry.

Very neat. Great thing about IRS is you don't have to leave clearance for axle movement and can bolt the exhaust to the diff carrier if you want.

All Done apart from fitting two brake hose pipes to the rear wheels and bleeding the brakes :)

Hope to get it motd on wednesday

You'd hardly know it's there :)

Yes it all fits really well I'm well pleased. still going to reduce the width by about 4" overall but that wont be until later.
Got some shows and events I want to take it to :)

Hey dude can I ask where you got the air shocks from ?

Ebay. there off a gl1100

Looking really good Terry!

All done. getting it motd tomorrow. then give it some serious road testing :o
1st photo old setup. 2nd new setup

Other than the width, which you said you were going to reduce, you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference :) Very tidy Tel.
So what's the advantages over the Reliant axle?
Better gearing? Better brakes? Better suspension? Or all 3?

Hi Andy. not sure on the gearing yet. I ran the 1500 on a reliant 2.78 and a 3.23 diff with about 300 rpm difference between them.
The jag axle is a 3.05 ratio so should be ok. 
The brakes seem better but only a road test will tell.
The main thing with this was  the suspension hope it going to give a softer ride as I plan to do longer runs on this.
But over all appearance with this axle setup looks a lot better than the reliant. :) I just hope the ride is ok to

If it rides well like this, will you still reduce the width of the axle?   Wouldn't that alter the geometry, and therefore possibly the ride?

It looks fine as it in IMO.

Certainly doesn't look wrong does it & I guess you need to leave a certain amount of clearance between the guards & panniers for suspension travel, but could always fit wider luggage! :) 

It wont alter the geometry BG. it I don't like wide trikes.
I'm used to riding narrow trikes. my gl1000 is only 50" wide the gl1500 with the reliant axle was 59" and with the jag axle it 68" wide.
I'm looking at about 62" over all width on this

Trike passed it mot today so I went for a run. well pleased with this. the gearing and handling is fine. not sure on the air shocks as it seems to be riding low down so put the old goldwings coil overs on to try. as for the width I will be altering it later in the year get the bit made then swap them over.

Congratulations Terry :)

Well done Terry, thats good news

Great news Terry.

Hears the latest update. been tidying up the rear end off the trike. that's all the major work done just some chrome work to sort out.

Tidy Terry :)

That is a lovely trike. I wouldn't change a thing on it. If you are going further afield this year you are always welcome in The Fort. Love the 'Alba' sticker... Tom.

Thanks for you comment. I would like to tour Scotland some time on the trike as the stickers they were on it when I brought it for a guy in Scotland so just left them on with the flags.  :)

I've been sorting out the wiring. when I got the bike it had a after mark light switch fitted. it 4 switches running various lights connected to the 5amp accessory fuse.

So i disconnected it and fitted a new fuse box with a fused relay switched from the accessory fuse.

Its a 6 way fuse box wired separate from the bikes wiring didnt want to cut or splice into the main loom

all wire are runnig to the fairing for the switches and led volt meter. there is a provision for wiring up a usb socket if i need one

i also connected the lower cornering light to the main wiring loom  as with the rear maker lights theres built in connector allready to plug into 2 at the rear and 2 front

You have a cornering light! How does that work, is it brighter the faster you corner?

Not quite. on the goldwings they have lights in the front on the lower part of the fairing one each side when you indicate say left that light comes on to help see the road!
A US thing in some states. I have wired them so they come on with the ignition as marker lights that stay on

Update. I have decided to reduce the width of this axle by 10" giving a 4ft 9" over all width
Got the axle on the work bench working out the wishbone and shock mountings

Ooh IRS ..that will never work on a trike ?   :D ;D and some even said a reliant engine will never turn that Jag axle?  One word for those fools  ::)
So how are you going to do the drive shafts ?
The width of my rear end including tyres ( outside to outside ) is 64 inches

The jag axle just right for the trike for fitting and gearing. mine is 67" over all With the drive shafts i am going to sleeve and plug weld them also will fully weld around the ends of the sleeve

Don't forget to put the UJs in phase (alignment ) that's going to look nice good sir 8) I'm glad I used the jag axle,feels nice to ride..

Thanks I marked it on the ends before cutting. yes the jag axle has got that nice ride and a lot better than a swing arm axle that you felt every bump in the road

I measured my jag axle..hub face to hub face ..48 inches

Just checked mine it 50" hub to hub. I cant go much narrower I wont be able to open the panniers :o

Hmmm, which jag exactly axle did you use?

Its from a xj8 4.2

many an old S type was banger raced down here and the back end ended up in my welding bay, seems they had lsd. even had a jig for cutting and realigning the bottom yoke.

While I'm waiting for some materials to come. I thought about the shocks and the setup going to try the air shocks and have them more upright. this is what I am looking at wont really know until its setup on the trike then i can sort the top mounts out

They're supposed to work at their best when upright aren't they?

Yes I think so BG the coil over one I have are leaning a bit more 

Ideally you need a slight incline which helps with the handling ..if you look at my IRS you will see it's only slightly angled..

They work just like the shocks on a bike swing arm. Within reason, the greater the angle from vertical, the greater the wheel movement relative to spring/shock displacement. This can be used to fine tune the suspension rate without changing springs, using adjustable or multiple position top mounts.

Ditto..but I used less words ::) ;D

 ;D ;D ;D

Done a bit more to the axle. made these just need to clean them up and fit them to the axle. then work on the shafts and suspension beam

Interesting design sir..I do love seeing builds..cool

Thanks.  I was only going to have one box section at first with triangle webs each side. but thought this looked better not that you will see much when there fitted.

Got the wishbones and drive shaft cut. sorting out the upper and lower shock mounts and ride height. once I have done that I can check the drive shaft length and camber then get them welded. it ended up 51" hub face to hub face with the wheels on it will be 57" over all

All done just need to paint it then fit it. may have to adjust the ride height when fitter
The piece of timber across the top is the width of the axle that's on the trike   

I'm assuming you can adjust the camber with shims behind the driveshafts flange on the diff?.looking great sir

Thanks.Yes I can I cut an extra 4mm off the shafts to allow adjustment. just one thing can you get shims for this I was going to make some if needed

Well my local jag man gets them in but I'm sure you can find them on the internet if not locally ? But if you have cut the same amount from the driveshafts and lower arms why the need to cut driveshafts more ? Do you still have the old shims/spacers ?

I reduced both by 130mm. when I set it up at the ride height the wheel were leaning  out to get the so they were nearly upright the wish bone and drive shaft was leaning down towards the diff. so by cutting 4mm off the shafts at the set ride height they are leaning slightly and either left as is or adjusted with shims 

Sounds like your on the ball good sir..

Thank you. I appreciate that coming from an experience builder  :)

Well I've been called many things ? ;D but cheers

Stinkey this may be a daft question but do you know what the drive shaft are. mild or cast steel  ???

Well the ones I've got are definitely cast? And weld very easily ?

Thank. I did wonder as they got a seem line on them.

Helps to make sure they are warm before welding which helps

Will do thanks. what rods did you use on yours

Rods? Jeez I don't use stick welders anymore  ;D
Mig welding or Tig..

they are cast steel, not cast iron, they weld fine with a good chamfer to penetrate well down into the root. I used to always arc weld them as I felt it was a more flexible weld, where as Mig is a very brittle weld. Tig is great, but a bit hard on large shafts. Good root weld though. Check out your weld rod guy to get one for cast steel or even a dissimilar steel rod. Plenty f pre heat and give it some amps. If I had a fiver for everyone I have done as a rabbit or foreigner I'd be worth about £50-00 now  ;D ;D 

I think I recall sleeving some as well ?? twas a long time back.

I got a mig and arc/tig welders. a mate is coming round to have a look

Thanks for all the information. yes they will be sleeved and plugged and well. will check out the rods I know I got mild steel rods

I love this site for helpful info from you guys..and talking of Sticks (welding rods) Mrs Stinkey came home with these today ? ::)

Axle parts are all done and are ready for painting stripped the back of the trike down so I could clean up and paint the cradle. whilst it clear at the back I will change the clutch plates

Trikes up and on its wheels. just needs tidying up and the clutch done. the first picture is what it looked like 5ft 7" wide the second is it now 4ft 9" wide.

Very nice work Terry, going to be a joy to ride.

Thanks Paul. Im verry pleased with the out come. Apart from being narrower the back is also 1 1/2" lower so i wont know if it will affect the handling until its back on the road.

Fingers crossed. It should be ok as it now the same hight as it was when i had the reliant axle fitted and that handled well and that was 5ft wide

It looks so neat being that bit narrower!

that does look good , some change

Trikes all done and been out for a ride. it handles very well and holds the road on corners and round about/ the steering is good with no shaking or pulling to the sides. overall 10/10 for looks and design.   

I t does look good Terry, happy new year mate

Very neat. Well done sir.

looks good out and about

It looks great!

Thanks for all the comments.
If there a MMM show at Basingstoke this year I will be there with it. and may have a two wheeled project on display as well. watch this space ;)

Basingstoke ? Hmm maybe again hopefully on the trike for me too ?