Manky Monkey Motors

Right, having seen both Craig's, and Muffin's trikes at the weekend, my mind has been made up, my next project is going to be a trike. The only problem with this is I don't know the first thing about them. Rather than ending up with a looooong list of threads with me asking individual questions, I'll try and lump them all into here, but be warned, there'll be a LOT of them!

Having scoured the forum today (during work time :D ) I've tried to answer some of them in my head but not many.

I've decided (I think) on what style I'd like. Started the day with wanting a reliant engined one, but not knowing a thing about them, the fact the engines etc are quite rare now for a good one so holding their price well, and mainly because building a frame for it scares the s**t out of me that's probably not going to happen. I want to end up with a low, mean looking hard tail style, so I reckon a bike donor will be a good place to start.

Anyhow, to the questions:

1) why do most opt for shaft drive, not chain?
2) why do most opt for reliant axles? If you start to mention ratios, you'll have to explain that also ( :D ) Are there any other recommendations?
3) if it's based on a bike, what sort of tubing will be best for the hard tail?
4) hard tail will end in MSVA, yes?
5) how important is wheel size?
6) if it's bike based, would a suicide shift (with clutch lever on the change) be an option?
7) what's the easiest (and safest) way to add rake to the headstock?

There'll be lots more, I'm sure.

I've hopefully attached a couple of pics from the forum 'three wheel' section of examples of the style I like. One of which was built by our glorious leader! :D

(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/533clive/2E4F71AA-E39F-4692-9699-4465671F623A_zpsbw1b1jnc.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/533clive/media/2E4F71AA-E39F-4692-9699-4465671F623A_zpsbw1b1jnc.jpg.html)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/533clive/18D30C52-05FF-4012-9F66-FA6E91C798C9_zpssvqbing1.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/533clive/media/18D30C52-05FF-4012-9F66-FA6E91C798C9_zpssvqbing1.jpg.html)
(http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/533clive/BE03F3D6-991A-44AE-BB7E-106A50228505_zpshk5oegqj.jpg) (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/533clive/media/BE03F3D6-991A-44AE-BB7E-106A50228505_zpshk5oegqj.jpg.html)

"OK I will jump in first, then others can tell you where I am wrong.
1. Shaft drive is usual as it's easier to connect to an easily sourced axle.
  Chain and belt drive axles are out there, but the are very expensive.

2. Reliant axles tend to get used with Reliant engined trikes as they come with the donor vehicle.
  Also because of their bolt up construction they are easily modified. Such as shortening.

3. Depends on construction and bending facilities. Cold drawn seamless of a reasonable wall thickness would be the way I would go

4. Hard tail need not end up with MSVA. If it's a bolted on rear so that it can be changed back to a bike then as long as there are no major modifications to the frame, then no MSVA.

5. Wheel size depends on the overall gearing that you wish to achieve, but with a decent size  engine you can be slightly flexible.

6. Yes, suicide shift is fine.

7. Have to say that there is no good way to rake a bike frame. Having said that, you can either shorten the top tube or lengthen the down tubes. Best way is probably to cut the headstock out completely and weld in a new one with decent gussets.

A couple of other things to take into account. Bike based trikes tend not to have reverse. It is possible to fit a reversing box in the driveline but this adds length and the trikes you are looking at are fairly short.
Reliant axles can be converted to chain drive, but it's not recomended.

You sir, are a star, thank you!!

Reverse isn't a problem at the moment. I am one of the very few on here who is still in full working order! :D :D :D :D................at the moment.

So, as well as diameter of tube, wall thickness is important as well. For rigidity I assume.

If the main 'cradle' is unchanged, then can it retain its original frame number?

So how difficult is it (not for me, but for some talented person) to fabricate a chain drive rear axle?

I've seen an early reliant "banjo" axle converted to chain drive. They removed the centre of the diff housing ,its in three pieces, put spacers in place of the centre part, bolted a sprocket to the ring gear and added grease nipples to various moving parts. How well it worked or how long it lasted with grease being used rather than oil, I couldn't tell you.

Thanks buddy

 ;D
Despite being geriatric, generally reverse isn't a problem for me either, it's just nice to have but when deliverance has 150kg of coal in the back it's definately needed. :D

As you say wall thickness is important. Not only for rigidity but unless you have access to expensive tube bending facilities then the thicker the wall the easier it is to bend without the tube collapsing. That's why our frames are usually made from, not cds but thick wall steam pipe. With a bolt in rear end you should be able to do most of it in fairly straight sections and I would guess about 30mm diameter 2mm wall cds tube should be ample.
Yep. as far as I know as long as the main frame is not altered then the frame number is retained.
I wouldn't attempt to make my own chain drive axle from scratch or to be honest even convert an axle. It's just not worth the cost or potential problems. It would be easier to convert a chain drive bike to shaft drive using a bevel box. But there are so many good shaft drive bikes out there now it hardly seems worth the effort unless you have a bike already. The old way of doing it was to use an early Reliant axle, cut away some of the casing and input shaft then bolt (or weld  :o )a sprocket to the crown wheel of the diff. And no they didn't last long.

I will be looking forward to seeing this take shape, you go for it Clive  :)

Right, you've all convinced me over to a shaft drive. Lots of donors on my watch list on ebay!!!

Lets have some pro's/con's for other possible axles. Seen a couple of Morris Minor/1000 one's and a couple of MGB one's also. Thoughts?

Morris minor axle.. It's heavy.
MGB axle..............Depending on year it's either heavy or very heavy.
 MGB axles come in two basic types, banjo or tube. The tube ones would be easier to modify.
 
Depending on gearing Bedford Rascal (Suzuki Super Carry) might be a good one.

Before you get into buying an axle you need to know roughly what sort of ratio that you need. To do this you need to know the drive ratio in the rear wheel of the donor bike and the relative circumferances  of the bike tyre to the tyre you want on the trike.

Okey dokey o great one!! Thanks buddy :D

If you can find one of these it gives you the option of a motor with chain final drive to Reliant, or similar! rear axle, but they are quite rare now, Morrag

not seen one of them in a good while  but if needs be i back in an area wheres thers a few bike breakers  so could ask around  ;) ;)

Great Minds Clive....  Great Minds..

Hello All, I'm a regular lurker, joined august last year to lurk around the trike threads and love this place!

I'm embarking on the same idea - I built/finished my current trike and now I have the urge to build a manky reliant.  I have most of the same questions as you Clive.

Here's my current trike (now for sale to fund the next build)

Suzuki GSX 750 EF with the same XS1100 bevel box as above

(http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/mrhutchT3/tricycle/2015-04-18%2020.15.27_zpsoeul5il1.jpg) (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/mrhutchT3/media/tricycle/2015-04-18%2020.15.27_zpsoeul5il1.jpg.html)

(http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/mrhutchT3/tricycle/2015-05-31%2018.28.06_zpsntxemlce.jpg) (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/mrhutchT3/media/tricycle/2015-05-31%2018.28.06_zpsntxemlce.jpg.html)

I have loved riding it, but I really want a manky style reliant..  more of a cruiser.  I get on this and my brain tells me I'm 20 again and should be drifting round corners.  Not good..

sorry for the mini HiJack but am following this and will start my own thread in the fullness...

'ello mate -& welcome.
So flog yours to Clive!

               
             got one in my shed,no longer needed,off a xs 750.

You want to sell then Trev? :) :)

yeh can do, how does £30 sound,its proper heavy so haven,t got a clue about postage

Sounds great buddy. Let me know the postage cost, unless you're nearby (I'm in Andover), and how you want paying

God that's a fantastic price ? Grab it quick

Question 7..you mean adjusting the RAKE..in itself quite easy,but getting the trail is the most important thing ? Although in trikes you can get away with a bit more when it's wrong it seems ?

Yes mate, adjusting the rake

A bit of advice would be ..collect as many parts you can before you start building ..a running engine would be first..and looks like you've got a transfer box  ;)..back axle..I'd go for an escort one..plenty of those still about

Cheers buddy

May be useful...

Thanks Bobbi, I'm all over that already...............

.................thanks to the 'chopper builders handbook' :)

And of course 'adjusting' the frame to change the rake would take you into MSVA teritory. So you possibly wont do that. ;)

                             i,m in stoke on trent,i,ll get it wheighed and let you know.

You're a star!!!

packed it and weighed it,  about 5 kilo,s,checked on post office website and the cheapest is about £14 is that ok.if it is message me your address and i,ll get it sorted.

PMing you now!

on its way clive.

And so is the money! :D

Got it Trev, thank you

thanks for the drink clive,if you are ever hovering over stoke call in for a brew. ;D

Is there anywhere easily accessible that states how much you can change a motorcycle frame whilst 'triking' it before it will need MSVA?

I understand that any change to the main cradle, headstock etc will end up having to be checked, and that it should be able to be turned back into a bike so no touchy-touchy on the shock mounting points, but I'm really talking about changing seat rails etc.

Told you there'd be a lot of stupid questions :D :D :D...................

Never found anywhere that will categoricaly state what you can legally change. Think this is because strictly speaking, any change to the frame where parts are removed that are not bolted on should put it into MSVA teritory.
Having said that, it seems to be accepted that on 'twin shocks' anything aft of the shock mounts can be modified providing that it doesn't affect the strength of the frame.

Sounds good to me!! :D

As this project never came off, I still have this sat in my garage, found it today whilst clearing out. Still in its box Trev sent it in!

Anyone want it, for what I paid for it.

Yes please Clive 👍😎