Manky Monkey Motors

OK guys, just how much can you modify a bike frame before it's deemed as 'Radically Altered' by the DVLA and then in need of MSVA testing?

eg1....standard café racer mod to a 70's frame...fitting a rear seat /mudguard loop to the seat sub frame. Radical or not?

eg2....standard bobber mod to a 70's frame......cut and shut seat rails/rebend subframe uprights so as to move the rear shock mounts and therefore lower the stance of the rear end. Radical or not?

eg3....remove and replace headstock gussets on 70's frame to improve the appearance of not having nasty pressed steel showing on your bobber/café racer when you fit a nice smaller custom tank. Radical or not?

eg4.....modification to swing arm pivot mounting to allow fitment of a later model rear swing arm/ wheel combo. Radical or not?

To my way of thinking, none of the above suggestions are radical as ,with the possible exception of eg2,the geometry of the main frame stays the same. Re-rakeing the front end, raising headstocks, fitting rigid rear ends.....yes to me all Radical mods.

Just a thought before I get to in depth planning new projects! :-\

Definitely not 2.
Possibly 3.

Not sure whether hunter means they are allowed or not - but I do know that a combination of several is regarde as more extreme than just one.......

 Fixed,Sorry i meant not.

Page 5 tells you all you need to know

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_180218.pdf

I think this could be open to a lot of interpretation
The bumph says an unaltered frame but is unaltered untouched or unaltered as in structurally as in altering suspension mounts or steering angle
I was under the impression as long as the main loop of the frame is unaltered and there are no major changes to the suspension and steering all is good.

I plan to SVA my hardtailed bike, but the vast majority of bikers don't seem to bother & carry on riding on the original registration, (I've done it in the distant past myself), through ignorance of the laws or whatever. The usual argument is that they've declared all the modifications to their insurers & they're fine with them -but that doesn't make it legal. 

I assume that as there is no wording to the contrary, unaltered means literally that, unaltered

As part of the ACE team I clarified EXACTLY what the wording meant re modifying chassis and monococques . You are allowed to strengthen by seam welding on cars you can even add in extra crossmembers. What you can't do is remove any crossmembers , cut ,lengthen shorten, remove anything from the parameters of the chassis

If the same rules apply to bikes then I'd say a hard tail or chopping off anything that doesn't BOLT on lands you in MSVA territory. MSVA doesn't look that hard at all to me anyway ? 

Hum.....just as I thought, bit of a grey area!

So heres another for you to ponder. As The Manky One said, in the long distant past,frame mods were carried out and as long as the MOT man said yes,all was good. So if I were to put one these old creations on the road, would it have to go through MSVA even thought there is a ''paper trail'' of previous MOT's and had been used on the road previously without bother.?

With cars you get  Grandfather rights if you can prove when the mods were done and that you advised DVLA at the time but they chose not to inspect,bit more difficult to prove with a bike unless any old features of it showing mods.

Yep the MSVA is easy. If you can't pass one you'd probably be better off getting someone else to do the work for you. It's actually really only concerned with basic common sense engineering principles and mostly EU regs.

There are two issues here. The first one

If you alter the main chassis by cutting and welding it (including removing gussets) you are deemed to have structurally altered the chassis in a negative sense and therefore will need a MSVA. You can remove and lower the seat rails etc and change the swing arm and make it a hard tail by welding on tabs to do a bolt on conversion. The principle being that it could be returned to the stock bike with the use of spanners (those tools not the chap on here). Weld on hard tails are not acceptable.

The other issue!

There is also a points system in place still and you need 8 points to maintain the identity of the vehicle so it's not just about the chassis/frame


Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified* 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

If you don't get the 8 points then you technically need an MSVA.

Saying all of that every inspection I've had has been carried out by someone who has little or no knowledge of the original vehicle and would not have known what was original and what was not. The fact is though if they pass it as ok then you are legal except if they or the insurance company later decide that you failed to declare that these parts are not from the original donor vehicle. Unlikely at the moment but the way things are heading you never know.

Grandfather rights don't exist. If the paperwork V5 notes the changes you are ok if it does not you then need an inspection.

In due course now that the MOT system is computerised it will likely be down to the MOT tester to notify the DVLA when you MOT the vehicle that it has modification that are not standard. You will then be notified that they want to examine the vehicle. Bike testers will know what they are looking at and as VOSA do regular clandestine checks on MOT stations it's going to be harder to find at test centre that is willing to pass what clearly is not a standard  bike. Some people have already been caught out!

Also bear in mind to that your insurance will be invalid even if you have notified your insurance company of the mods as the bike is technically a ringer if the DVLA don't know about it!

Hope that helps  

Is that a typo?  Did you mean "if you haven't notified" or have I misunderstood?

Makes a change for someone to own up . Despite us over at ACE dealing with at least one a month ( that's those who manage to find us ) people still say it's not happening >:( . Doesn't help that those caught, and helped,  won't own up for fear of looking ...well I don't don't know what but it makes us at ACE look like scaremongers when we KNOW it's happening regularly .

With VOSA now doing ALL DVLA inspections I expect the number caught to grow .

Yep you are spot on.

VOSA have an interest in this. In order to viable financially they will be happy to make themselves useful and if they catch enough people you can expect the rules to be tightened further.