Manky Monkey Motors

do any one know what type of distributor this is 9 or 12volts it on Andy's pop.it is electronic ignition.we think its a Lucas and the only number i can see with out taking it of is i think 416738. and it has two vacuum take ofs


(http://i51.tinypic.com/rlx0df.jpg)

12 volt electronic (Dont use a points coil) its only the points dizzys that can use a 9 volt coil.

thats what we thought. just checking mallory distributor for rover v8 electronic comes with ballast resistor

"Don't use a points coil" -?
We've got just an average 12 volt jobbie, as sold by most auto factors. So should we be refitting that damn resistor then? (it's been on & off the engine about 6 times so far).

it need to be a coil for electronic ignition  ???  it needs a bit more investigating

One final time then! yeah, right!!The ballast resistor is only used when the coil is a 9V item, which reduces the standard line voltage of 12volts d.c. to 9v. d.c. under normal running conditions. On starting however, and when the ignition switch is in the "spring loaded" clockwise position, a full 12v d.c. is applied to the 9v d.c. coil, via this ignition switch contact, bypassing the ballast resistor,to produce a "hotter" spark under engine cranking conditions,)IE. 12volts applied to a nom. 9v. d.c. coil}. Once the motor fires and is running, the spring loaded start position is released, then the coil voltage returns to the 9v. via the ballast resistor.Obviously, should, as sometimes happens, a fault occurs which results in 12v being continuously applied to a 9v. coil for some reason, then the coil will eventually fail! hope this clarifies things, if not bring the bloody thing to me Mr. M!!!! cheers for now, Morrag (ps. the distributer voltage is not really relevent here, as the dist. would normally use the batteries 12v supply,which would be suitably modified within the distributer,during manufacture, to provide its solid state circuit voltage requirements.)

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

 Hi all does any one know what this alloy unit is shown in photo below the coil
(http://i56.tinypic.com/jrpvmu.jpg)

It looks like an aftermarket PC board such as "Spakrite" which was an interim measure to remove the lgnition points use, ie as a loaded component, before Hall effect transisters became the norm, Morrag

Terry, check out page 53 54 or 55 (around there somewhere) on Andy`s build thread, i have already gone over all this with him  ::)

Thanks tbone.i have done that already.
theres a photo there that shows a ballast resistor and the regulator.i am checking it all out now

morrag i dont think it is an aftermarket unit i believe some models were fitted from factory

We no longer have the PC board thingy -binned it when we were told we didn't need it.
So, just for us, those idiots who don't understand wiring, our 12 volt coil will work fine with the, (possibly Lucas), electronic ignition dizzy we have, without the need for a ballast resistor? It won't fry the contents of the distributor?

Hi Andy.i think you were told wrong mate.your properly OK with that coil but you need the PC board this is what you had on your engine to maintain a stable current to your distributor. ask brock or the boys that work on these sort of engines.if we dont get this right i will never run properly

this was taken from a rover v8 forum

This sounds like you have the Lucas OPUS system 35DE8, and the alloy plate with the 3 spades each end is the ballast resistor.

Connections to this are as follows:-
distributor plugs into the distributor end of the ballast resistor and the white/grn wire on this plug connects to the coil (+) . The white/black goes to the coil (-)

The other side of the ballast is wired as follows:-
Bottom terminal is spare
Middle one should be connected to an ignition switched +12v supply
Top one (marked start) should be connected to the aux spade terminal on the starter motor.

O.K, so what you're saying is ...we're buggered then.
A normal ballast resistor won't do the job?

not yet Andy gone this far. i am not giving up now we will sort it  ;) i am still looking

when you got this engine. did that coil with the ballast resistor come with it. or did you take it of the spare engine
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2du9dte.jpg)

The resistor's a new one, given to me by PopRodder. The coil was just an old 12 volt one. Can see me hunting for another dizzy at this rate.

not just yet. so there was no coil with this engine.just distributor cap leads and circut board

No, might've been the one in the photo, might've been another. Haven't got it anymore I'm afraid -well, it was several years ago.

Years ago when I had the Rover engine in the Mini, I went down the local factors at the time for a new coil as mine was playing up. I fitted it outside the shop and tried to drive back to the garage. All I managed to do was completely blow out one of the front silencers. I jumped into my other car and took it back and found thay had given me a points coil by mistake. >:(
The only reason they used ballast coils with points was it inproved the spark on start up, with the electronic ignition there is a better spark anyway so its not needed.

yes but whats is confusing is this unit shown here is according to the rover v8 forums is a ballast resistor with electronic ignition distributor
(http://i56.tinypic.com/jrpvmu.jpg)

wright as i see it is
i think the distributor that came with the engine and according to the v8 forums is a
LUCAS OPUS 35 DE8 transistorize ignition.the alloy electronic plate is a ballast resistor
what we want to know is what coil do we need and were can we get one of those ballast resistor
has any one got on in there garage or yard
this is the ballast resistor                                   this is the distributor
(http://i56.tinypic.com/jrpvmu.jpg)               (http://i52.tinypic.com/25henhv.jpg)
can any one help i know we have talked about electronic ignition not have a ballast resistor
so if you can identify this items from a rover sdi 3500 our leader will be grateful 
better still have got a full ignition distributor set up going even better

I'm thinking just swap the electronic dizzy for a standard points one & save ourselves some hassle. Loony has a mate who's into off-roading, mainly in cut down V8 Range Rovers. I'll see if he has a spare.

if you can get the complete set up ie dizzy coil cap. might have to change the drive cog at the bottom of the dizzy. not sure any help would be appreciated

you cant swap a points dizzy for an electronic one without a lot of work swapping the mainshaft over the holes dont line up as the drive gears are different between early p5-p6 models. and you really dont need that ballast resistor ;)

Hi toad. yes i thought i would not be straight forward swap
how can we wire it then to a coil then theres 2 wires from the dizzy a red one and a black/white one
there a red wire that come out of the dizzy to what looks like a suppressor then to dizzy resistor battery
then theres a white and black wire that comes out the dizzy to ?  ;)

Here is the wiring diagram i posted before.

thanks mate i have got that as well.problem is Andy has not got the resistor any more.so need to know how to wire this dizzy up with out it.as hes been told it can be done but we don't know where the wires go.i am trying to sort this out for Andy so he can hopefully take it to the ssr wheels day on the 22nd.at the moment i not sure what to do relying on info from other monkeys or the big v8 boys.
we had it running on sunday but not running right for the show to drive around

you cannot run that dizzy correctly without the 6 wire resistor. Putting a direct 12v feed to the coil will saturate it magnetically, as well as overheat it, both these will cause a poor spark / misfire and eventually the coil will burn out.
The system is designed to be used with that box!

yes i know. i have said that.  ???
but we have been told.we dont need it. we do need it.and keep going over the same thing each time.
no do this or do that

Well if thats what you wanna do.....
The Black/White wire from the dizzy goes to the coil -
The Red wire to the coil +
12V feed into the coil +

NO NO NO that's not what I wanna do. ITS whats been said that can be done.dizzy with electronic ignitions don't need a ballast resister

From tbone
Well if that's what you wanna do.....
The Black/White wire from the dizzy goes to the coil -
The Red wire to the coil +
12V feed into the coil +

Reply from tt
tbone that's how we wired it up on sunday.just luck i think me and Brock checked it and that's what we came up with.  and is still wired like that

From tbone
you cannot run that dizzy correctly without the 6 wire resistor. Putting a direct 12v feed to the coil will saturate it magnetically, as well as overheat it, both these will cause a poor spark / misfire and eventually the coil will burn out.
The system is designed to be used with that box!

Reply from tt
and these are some of the symptoms we had that you have listed above

Erm, would this help?   ;D

Spent all day thinking surely I wouldn't be daft enough to throw it away would I? Scoured the barn we store Taz's Dodge in when I got home & sure enough, there it was. So hopefully, crisis averted.
-so, can we run a standard 12 volt coil with this? Got one fitted on the Pop at the moment. Or do I need to use the rusty old one that came off the engine when I bought it? No markings on it & no guarantee it's a 9 volt one.
We'd love to get the Pop to WheelsDay at Rushmoor Arena, but got no way of getting it there yet. Anyone going -with a trailer?

that's great Andy.take them to the work shop next time you go.let me know what days/eve you will be there and i will try and come over to have a look and fit them and set up the timing.

 dizzy with electronic ignitions don't need a ballast resister
[/quote]

I fully agree with that statement.
What you have however, is an early transitorised occillating pickup. This was one of the first electronic systems developed and unlike later versions, it needs the control that the resistor box gives.

Appears we had a slight mis-understanding, I was reading the thread as wanting to dispose of the box, not that it had been lost, I`ll go back to rigging my lobster creels  ;D

I fully agree with that statement.
What you have however, is an early transitorised occillating pickup. This was one of the first electronic systems developed and unlike later versions, it needs the control that the resistor box gives.

Appears we had a slight mis-understanding, I was reading the thread as wanting to dispose of the box, not that it had been lost  ;D

Then found again.thanks tbone. do you know what coil would have been used  ::) 

I would guess that Andy`s rusty one has C22 stamped on the bottom  :o
I`d go for a coil suitable for electronic ignition, all the V8 non points systems should use the same coil. (these have a primary resistance of 1.0 ohm).

And thats the last time i use that R word  ;D ;D

right let me clarify this a bit! The ballast resistor is only fitted to aid starting. if you look at the wiring diagram for a pre 1985 rover v8 dizzy you,ll see its wired to the aux tag on the starter solenoid, Thats to give a constant 12v,s whilst starting, and not cause a voltage drop at the coil. if the power feed is wired direct to a permanent fused power supply to the battery and not a spliced supply as in most cars then the coil and distributor will perform perfectly.
I did my apprenticeship at dutton forshaw,s 3yrs on rovers and jaguars ;)

The ballast resitor is fitted to reduce voltage to the coil.
Electrical componants are made to operate at specific values, you cannot 25% more voltage through without adverse affects.
 :)

Im no making any more comments on the subject :-*

 :-*

Did I say "one final time......", ho hum! but of course your right Mr.T, run above the rated voltage, and you won't run for long!! Morrag

this will be my last post on this honest ;D im donating a suitable distributor and will fit it saturday afternoon and set it up for the last time!!! ;D

I just happen to have a. 8 cylinder Scintilla Vertex magneto, off a WW1 fighter, now that would be........ no I haven't, honest!!!!