Manky Monkey Motors

im having an issue on ford pop axle / brakes on the trike

a] brakes are crap - im sure this is my lever setup though so i can get over this by just re doing the linkage and changing more maths - ignore this fault im just venting  ;D

b] rear right wheel sticks on.

the cable is slack so its in the brake somewhere. with it all installed on the trike but no drum on it works faultlessly. as soon as i just push the drum over the shoes if i pull the brake reasonably hard it locks on. it releases if i turn the wheel 1/2" backwards but doesnt if i turn it forwards. or i can free it by getting some mole grips on the swaged bit of the cable that enters the drum and pushing it.

i have new shoes in there but they are correct and not dragging when the trike is rolling. also i filed down the leading and trailing edge already

im open to any ideas. its pissing me off

Hi SUMO. are they cable or hydraulic brake. any photos of set up. terry

cable, no new clean pics - its underneath - heres old dirty pic

but its just a standard cable setup, nothing fancy. and as i say its not anything outside the wheel like routing etc as it all functions great till the drum goes on - see diagram all well till i put on drum [1115]

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/banjodave/panther/P1050672Small.jpg)

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/banjodave/panther/plate109.gif)

Drum not true? -oval, rather than round?
Or the braking surface inside the drum tapered rather than true & square to the face of the shoes?
A lip worn on the back edge of the drum? I once had a problem on one of my Moggy Minors -the drum would pop on over the shoes but the braking surface had worn down, leaving a lip around the back edge. When I braked hard the shoes would ride up onto the lip & jam on.
Excessive scoring of the braking surface of the drum, causing the shoes to "stick" to it?
Is the operating cable properly anchored to the back plate? Maybe the outer sleeve is pulling out of the back plate when the inner cable moves & holding the brake on?
If yo've got access to a lathe, it's probably worth spending a few minutes spinning the drum up to check it's running true.

ill have a measure up and see if it will fit in my lathe.

will also have a look and see how bad wear is. didnt strike me as terrible though.... that bloody shaun and this dodgy axle he soldme for a small fortune  ;)

anyone got a couple of spare drums laying about if i do need em?

another quick thing - it does it when just standing not only when moving - would that possible negate the oval drum / lip argument?

You're asking me -like I'd know?!  :P
I'm not an expert on anything. I guess it would depend what point of the oval the wheel was at when you tried it -does it lock all the time? Have you tried jacking it up & turning the wheel, trying the brake at various points? If it only gives problems in certain positions, that'd pin-point which area of the drum is at fault wouldn't it?
Can't actually remember what happened to my rear axle -I think Shaun had it, along with the orignal Pop chassis, so it might be the one you've got!

ha - could well be this one here in that case

i ask like you might know? you make such a convincing job of sounding like you might know...

as for sticking - any point on the wheel - its not proud, it f**ks with me all the way round

sounds like  a rough drum  or a lip on the inner edge  i.e furthest out away from the back plate  i,v come accross the same sort of thing on commercial vehicle,s

the new linings maybe ever so slightly wider than the area the old one,s conntacted with the drum

Sounds plausible to me Mike.
I work hard at appearing to be a complete idiot here. Tis my job to ask the questions others are too scared to in case they make themselves look stoopid. I think I play the part rather well.  :P

 :D :D :D :D :D ;) ;) ;D ;D

SUMO. are you using the rod setup or cables. you say if you push the cable back it frees up the brakes. these brakes were designed for rods with a big spring to pull it back when you release the peddle. to release the shoes from the drums

this one has a cable stock into the brake plate. then rod off the crank just to the right of the diff going forwards to all car bits, that rod i have replaced with a cable, but the cables from the crank to the brake plate are stock parts.

Have you got an exploded pic of the brake system? How do the shoes operate, do they have return springs fitted?

yep return springs fitted - they are much the same as any drum brake with the 2 springs across the middle.  they work and return just fine without the drum on  ???

have you tried swapping the drums over side to side, then shoes, process of elimination etc.

That is how I remember them, can't recall where the spring was fitted but it used to push the rods back. The brakes worked OK when fitted to the car so hopefully it isn't a huge problem. I have spare front drums and shoes if thats any help mate? not sure if they are the same though.

when i say push the cable i mean get hold of the swaged on end with a set of mole grips and push - cant push a bit of string [cable]

left works just dandy, right doesnt... so its not in the general setup of things its something specific in that right drum thats an issue - im going to look into the egg shape / wear / lip and switch them over to see what difference there is. but that will be sunday most likely - st1100 broke down yesterday so need to sort that saturday. luckily snow is forecast and we are busy at work so they have put me in a hotel so i dont get snowed out of london again...

I know less than nothing about Pop brakes - but this puts me in mind of a problem I regularly had with new shoes on my RXS100 (bike).  I found the answer was to chamfer the leading edge of the lining - wonder if that would help in this case?

BTW I did it by rubbing it on the brick wall next to the garage!

leading and trailing edges chamfered when i put em in but yep - could have been.

Hi SUMO. are they new shoes. did you check to see if they fitted the drum properly. they might be wedging on the end of the shoes. when you take the drum of check to see if there are scuff marks on parts of the shoe.that will give you some clue if the shoes fit ok. also the return springs might be weaker on this side