Manky Monkey Motors

Was browsing the 'net & checked out Edinburgh Trike Service's site.
The owners, Lil Miss PMT & Mark, were forum members here for a while. Seems they're now selling our Reliant rear disc brake conversion, as featured in issue 44 of 100% Biker over 4 years ago & reproduced here:

 http://www.mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/Trikespageimages/discbrake/disc.htm

& fitted to all the local MMMotors trikes including my own current project.
300 quid.

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Reliant Disc Brake Conversion £300.00

Reliant Disc Brake conversion kit.

Kit comprises of:

2 Hydraulic / Mechanical Calipers
2 Brake Disc's
2 Handbrake Cables
1 Handbrake Lever
2 Powder Coated Caliper plate's
4 High tensile caliper bolts and washers
8 High tensile 5/16 UNF bolts and washers
Cable adjuster kit
NOTE Your hubs will require machining in two place's.

We can do this by return post if required, please contact us for details.

This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 17 July, 2007.
 
http://www.edinburghtrikeservices.co.uk/index.php
 

How do you feel about this?
I know you graciously posted it on the web for the benefit of every and any one, but it is still pretty much your idea. Is there any mention of thanks to MM for the inspiration, or better yet % sales commission

It's a cheek but if there's no patent it's legal.  Hardly surprising they're not posting here any more, tho!

Cheeky swines!!

 ;D
I'm not going to slate the Trike Services guys here -fair enough, they spotted a marketable product & went for it. Brock kept telling me I should've marketed it myself but, as usual, I wasn't organised -or bothered, enough to do it. Plenty of ideas get copied or adapted in the custom world.
Perhaps would've been nice if they'd just emailed me to tell me they were using my design though. 

yes i agree it wouldnt of hurt them to send you an email letting you know

Why not contact them and ask them to credit you with the design - it wouldn't cost them anything but it make them feel a bit guilty!

     and here I was, biting my tounge. Have you worked out their margin yet ? allways room for competition and you have a much more visable profile with regard to advertising.  

Well said Brock,I know where I'd rather get mine from

I'm really not too worried by it all. I perfected the design, which was basically just a matter of finding standard car components that would work together & making an adaptor plate, then put it out in the public domain for anyone to use -a public service thing.
I know of a dozen or so people who've used this set-up since the article appeared in 100% Biker, including another semi pro builder who's put together 4 or 5 of them. No problem, happy to be of help to fellow builders. Edinburgh Trike Services may well tell their customers it's based on the MMMotors design, I don't know.
Yes, I'm slightly miffed, but no more than that.
As regards profit margins, the discs are about 20 quid a pair, calipers are 20 quid each from scrapyards or 60 -70 for reconditioned units, (you have to have an old one to exchange though), handbrake levers 5 - 10 quid from the scrappy, cables 20 quid each made to order by Speedy Cables ltd or cheaper if you can adapt standard Golf ones yourself. That leaves the cost of the material to make the adaptor plates, plus the machining costs unless you've got your own milling machine. SaddleBags made a couple of pairs for me in return for some trike parts. No idea what it'd cost to make them on a production basis, or just how many kits you'd sell. I'm happy to remain an enthusiastic ammateur builder I think.  :)  

Suppose when you think that all the parts would be new, non exchange items, there isnt a massive profit to be made really. But I think with the amount of trikes being built using reliant axles, plus the ones already out there, there is a market for them, but they wouldnt exactly fly out the door! Ok if you can afford to put a few kits together and have them sitting around waiting for customers.

300quid sounds a pretty good price to me,the kit does look good,as for using your design Manky if you put things on the net for all to see and its a good idea sooner or later some one will use that design and make money from it ,the best you hope for is the satisfaction that someone has considered your design good enough to copy and stake their own reputation on,after all imitation is the  sincerest form of flattery. ;D

Precisely.  :)

They are still ungratefull thieving twats tho in my opinion.

We all buy things at an inflated price due to development costs, and acknowledge that. They haven't had those costs.

The minimum they could have done is beg youre permission on the promise of a recognition statement.


HOWEVER.....I have given away many design ideas especially in the arena of safety critical kit, because of the risk of injury or death to those implementing them/and or their installation. The profit margin on these kits does not warrant the possible claim against loss on life.

BTW I have sent a mail asking where their inspiration came from.

if ya want my opinion?? their taking the piss! but it will bite them in the ass!!! if they used the origenal  drawing andy put in the mag?? they run the risk of a major mishap as the centre hole is large enough to let the halfshaft bearing pull through! which will result in the wheel coming away from the trike! without sounding harsh let them pay by their mistake!!!!

If they used those drawings they have commited an act of theft under the copyright act, unless they have drawings that predate the ones in the mag then they owe Andy royalties or a one off payment at a reasonable value for the design.

Andy, you say you had to let the flat go due to cost of living but don't seem too bothered with losing out on a big pay day. get stuck in chap!! the least you are owed is a fee for the original concept and drawings.

Nice set up tho

I have agreed with everything everyone has said so far. It is out of order that they were on this site like everyone else then stole Manky's own idea for there own profit without so much as an email or anything. I bet they don't tell people that they got the idea from him,or credit the site in any way. Lets hope they don't try and put a copy write on it cos they will have to prove that they came up with it before Manky and there is proof on here that they didn't as they asked him about it. I also agree with Manky though. Once you sit down and figure out the cost to buy the bits to make up the kit and the cost of machining the plates you wouldn't be left with much of a profit margin. Also the cost of putting a copy write in the plate would be very expensive. I will have a word with a friend of mine who is going through the process at the minute. The other way is to see what it would cost to just machine the plate and sell that on its own and leave the purchaser to buy the other bits themselves. It would probably work out cheaper and easier that way.

i know where i did ;D

Me too  ;D

honest andys emporium of scrap??? ;D

Too honest for his own good Andy.  :)
Looks like I've stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest here! Didn't intend to. If anything I was quietly amused that something I threw together in my shed has ended up as a kit being marketed by a professional company. I'm not looking for confrontation, but will admit a quick note to say they were using the idea would've been courteous.
As for the drawing in 100% Biker, Toad's right, it wasn't really intended as an accurate, cut out & use template, more an illustration of what the finished plate should look like.

me mates told me its advetised in 100%...... >:(

ill be getting my copy soon so ill verify it for you....

yes it is in issue 94

My mail and their response.......... Quote......

"Lots of requests for help in doing the job 'diy' and the monkey."



-----Original Message-----
From: Quzzy [mailto:paul.harrison067@orange.fr]
Sent: 10 September 2007 22:44
To: Edinburgh Trike Services
Subject: Enquiry from Edinburgh Trike Services



I wondered where the inspiration for your reliant brake conversion came
from?

Would have been nice if they said the web site name and that they got it off of him instead of "The Monkey". Bet they would not have said that If you hadn't asked and they probably know you are on here.
Andy's was in issue 44 and this company have it in issue 94. That just shows how long ago it was when Andy put it in there.

It just goes to show how high they regard their friends when money is involved... ::)

We know who's idea it is though... ;)

I think Tazet has a valid point about making the backing plates though Andy, get in there my son ! ;)........ 8)

did mine cheap axle£5 discs and calipers £15  metal for plates found in garage total cost a staggering £20 excellent ;)

An axle for a fiver?! Got any more?

oh yes  always have a spare,one  i am trying to accumalate the world surplus as they are becoming rare  ;D ;D ;D ;D 8)

Was at the local bike meet last night & was asked if I knew anyone with an axle. Now I know where they all are!