Manky Monkey Motors

I don't know if this should be in the tech bit but I've been told on other forums that there is a thread on here about supercharging a Reliant engine and somebody's actually done it, can anyone confirm this or point me in the right direction please? Thanks, Phil.

I know several guy's have started this type of thing but not sure if any ever got one running mate..

I would like to join this exclusive club!  :D

Welcome, pull up a chair and tell us about yourself. Im sure The Boss will be along later :)

Re: supercharging...look out for Toad, a member here, Im sure he did that

I've got as far as buiding a test 'chassis' for a universal Vortec style centrifugal supercharger .Fitted it on my Pinto in my POS  and it made the right noises and a little boost. I know teh areas that need refining but haven't been able to get time to work on it again. Thinking about dragging it out of storage for my minimalist rod project that I'm starting soon.

Hi Phil -& welcome to the Land of Mank.
Toad started a supercharged Reliant trike project, which then got sold to Lunatic. We're now using that engine in our joint T bucket project. Mr Toad didn't get beyond mocking up the manifold to accept a 'charger from a modern Mini though. We've got that supercharger, but there was some damage to the rotor tips, (can't remember if the coating was coming off or the blades were chipped. To be honest, we're just fitting it so we can say we've got a supercharged Reliant, than for any real power gain. Standard Reliant will do 80mph ish. We'd be happy, (& slightly terrified), if it reached a ton.
What are you building?

What am I building?  Well, err, it's a Reliant powered motorbike, that's two wheels not a trike ;D.  Not knocking the trikes mind, The Flapster is perfection in my opinion and the others are v.nice too.  I've had this in my head for a good decade now, i want to transfer the simplicity of the Reliant trikes to a two wheeler. I'm nearly done, I hope, the engine is inline with the frame, Reliant gearbox, XS1100 transfer box and a hardtail frame with sprung seat.  The problem is, I spent a day classic trailing in a pre-war Wolsley Hornet that was supercharged and I can't get out of my head how cool it would be to run a 'charger on what will already be a pretty good headturner.  Don't get me wrong, I know if I wanted to go fast I should build a GSXR/CBR/ZZR, it's just the sound of the supercharger that appeals and the engineering.  Any comments on this hair-brained scheme are welcome.
As another thought, can the engine capacity be increased by a reasonable ammount?  As you can tell, i'm interested in what the possibilities are with this very lightweight engine.

The 750 racing club used Reliant engines for years and managed to get quite good power from them. Might be worth checking out their website.
Supercharged engines have been fitted into a couple of Liege cars and I can remember a pic of one on the web.

sounds like a cool project but we do need loads and LOADS of pictures.. I started to mock up a reliant bike several years ago but was going to use a Sunbeam (S7/8) motorcycle box  to keep the wheelbase short. what charger you going to use? the mini one's are huge compared to an aisin 300 which is designed for a 600cc motor so would work reasonably well with an 850 Reliant..

I do have lots of pics but I'm a complete pleb with computers but if anyone could put them up for me I could email them. Shaun, yes, there was a thread on RetroRides on this subject with the supercharged Liege but it turns out this is a foreign, expensive charger so wouldn't be an option.  There is a Shorrocks on Ebay at the mo that would just about bolt on but the worry is that these are old units and you can't tell the condition from pictures.  So that would leave an Eaton from a Mini or Mercedes, I am led to believe the Mercedes one is smaller but I'm far from an expert as you should be able to tell by now. I'm just interested in what people have seen done or done themselves.  I got hold of a copy of the 750 Motor Club tuning manual and it's very in depth but I'm looking for low down power hence the supercharger idea.  And the fact it will look and sound cool. 8)

Sounds like your gonna fit in here nicely ;) ;)  Looking forward to seeing a few pics of this.

Like one of these m'bee......................... :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

I paid £186 for my Aisin direct from Japan, here in 5 day's... what do eaton's go for now??

If you're going to run a blower, you'll need to run some numbers to determine what you want. ie Boost, engine speed, engine size etc.
Try this site for some info:

http://victorylibrary.com/supercharger/super-drive4.htm

Drive ratio
    Once the type and capacity of the supercharger have been selected, the relative speed at which the engine will drive the supercharger must be tested to detect gross mis-matches:
    If the supercharger capacity is too small, this requires excessive supercharger RPM either above the safe limit (which will vary with individual models and types), or not practical for the drive method chosen (sprocket or pulley too large or small). Insufficient capacity also means that the supercharger is a restriction in the intake flow path until critical RPM is reached, where its capacity matches the engine’s demand. Below this point power will be less than in normally aspirated mode, both due to restricted breathing and of course the drive load.
    If the supercharger capacity is too large, this permits internal leakage reducing boost at low RPM, inefficient operation, and high power loss, or not practical for the drive method chosen (sprocket or pulley too large or small).  
    There is a rough method of approximating how fast the supercharger must turn in relation to engine speed. It does not include such factors as supercharger wear, the engine’s volumetric efficiency, intake restrictions, &c. and therefore is only useful as an estimator. To calculate the drive ratio to produce the boost desired with the supercharger selected, where:
R: drive ratio (supercharger RPM ÷ engine RPM).
C: engine displacement, either in cubic centimeters, liters ÷ 1,000, or cubic inches × 16.387.
B: boost, in pounds per square inch (psi).
A: atmospheric pressure, in pounds per square inch (psi); 14.7 is approximately correct for sea
     level and 70° F. Click for a Table of amospheric pressure at higher elevations: ). Please
     note that RAD is preferred to actual pressure when calculating the effects of air conditions on tuning.
V: supercharger volume in either in cubic centimeters, liters ÷ 1,000, or cubic inches × 16.387
     per revolution; Roots volume is “displacement”, eccentric vane volume is “swept volume”.
O: Cam overlap; subtract 30 from the overlap in degrees, then multiply by 1% (.01). E.g. for 65°
     overlap, O = 65 - 30 = 35, × 1% = .35.  

 
R  =  C × (B + O + A)  divided by  (V × 2 × A)

Maths was never my strong point (so maybe worth re-calculating), but using the formula above, I reckon the following will give you a guide line for an 850cc engine spinning at 7000rpm with 7 psi boost

Aisin 300 (the 300 stands for the swept volume), you'll be looking at spinning that little blower at around 14,875 rpm!

If you went for an Aisin 500, the blower rpm would drop to around 8925 rpm

If you then calc the numbers for an Eaton 45 (45cu inch / nom 750cc) the blower rpm would drop to around 5950 rpm
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/AutomotiveAftermarket/Superchargers/PCT_221788


http://pub25.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=2099944454&frmid=5&msgid=922656&cmd=show

http://www.austinsevenfriends.com/Bruce/Supercharger%20Information%20and%20Formulae.htm

http://www.mankymonkeymotors.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13389.0

Lotsa options ..................

Olds your right they used shorrocks blowers in the 70s,
But not these day's.They don't even use reliant motors anymore,Fiat punto motors now.

Re the Shorrocks on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shorrock-Supercharger-/200989395859?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ecbe6cb93

Wouldn't surprise me if it went for around the £700 - £900 mark, as it has manifolds, carb and float bowl, boost guage (from a Supermarine Spitfire), blow-off valve and paperwork

Yep, that's the one.  Looks good but who hasn't had their fingers burned by something that looks nice 'n' shiny?  ;) £900.00 eh?  Can't help thinking I could pick up an Eaton for less than half that and have money left for machining?

Mouse is going to put up some pics for me, thanks Mouse.  These are the last photo's I took before I decided to change the final drive from a shaft to chain.  This meant fitting a bevel box and this meant chopping it in half and adding another 150mm in the wheelbase, don't you just love it when that happens ::).  Back on track now though, the drive flanges and sprockets are currently away getting machined then, hopefully, it's a case of knocking up a few brackets, a bit of adjustment and, fingers crossed.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/007mouse/orca20_zps01c8b9b4.jpg)

Why the change to a chain?

me again lol
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/007mouse/orca35_zps8d07f3b1.jpg)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/007mouse/ORCA38_zps9c059f4f.jpg)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/007mouse/orca23_zpse69cb797.jpg)

To run the shaft drive I would have needed a transfer box to move the drive across, then a modded driveshaft with the right size sprockets, I thought the way I've gone with the bevel box would be easier.  I'm fairly sure I've done the right thing but all the drive flanges are away getting modded so it's gonna be a case of 'suck-it-and-see', fingers crossed :).

Personally I would have got me a Sunbeam or Ural box and rear wheel, so many folk have fitted reliant motor's into Urals that all the info is out there.. but saying that it's a cool looking sickle sir  8)

I hear what you are saying, I've seen at least one Reliabeam in magazine articles.  The one thing I really wanted to do though was retain the standard h patern gear change, no real reason, just 'cause!  On a similar theme I did see a Sunbeam at a vintage rally fitted with a 2CV engine and box which obviously worked as he completed the rally.

Oh, yeah, nearly forgot, the other good thing is I've got reverse ;D

Of course -hadn't thought about the propshaft being central on the Reliant box!
I'm with Shaun -Ural box. Bike style gearchange & kickstart!

With 10 mins to end of auction, its £1229.........

Sold for £1313.

Yukon.

I went over this a few years back when I was looking at doing exactly the same thing. I actually had a VW/Reliant set up, but then got a piggy lump because I could not get my big feet around the VW cylinder heads.

I looked at the frame and did'nt want a long back end to clear a propshaft, so I thought about fitting a sprocket onto the Reliant gearbox flange, and another one the same size on the end of a short drive shaft which just cleared the diameter of the back wheel.

But it's good to be different!   ;)

I perfectly understand sir.. been doing odd things my whole life just because I could  ;D

Thanks for all the replies, it's good to get different ideas.  I was thinking exactly the same as the diagram above when I started but then you realise that the output flange on the Reliant box will need an outrigger bearing as it is not designed to take any sideways load and the driveshaft also needs supported.  Also, the distance between the cog on the Reliant box and the one on the driveshaft is quite small meaning you would be restricted in your cog size which affects your choice of gearing and means the chain will not drive on as many teeth as you might like.  Or, you could mount the driveshaft on the other side and flip the rear wheel over and mesh the two cogs but that would be even harder to engineer.  Which ever way you really need it to run in oil so that means an eclosed box.  Then you wish you'd just bought a CG125 :D.  As you can tell, I've thrown a lot of ideas about and this just seemed the best way to go.  Hopefully, time will tell.

I still want to build a Reliant engined bike one day to pull a side car for my Dragon rally trip's and maybe even a return to the Elephant one day...

Shaun,
This is on ebay at the moment, if I had more cash lying around I'd have it myself for 'future' use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reliant-engine-adapter-plate-/200989794928?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2ecbece270#ht_82wt_1170

Wasn't somebody on the forum planning to manufacture those at some point?

cheers Yukon.. BUT and I know you will all find this impossible to beleive but I am not adding to my project pile anymore.. enough enough and it's starting to cost me too much in storage fee's so some of it is going....