Manky Monkey Motors

As it says, has anyone done this?

Would like to run the pipe from the m/c down to the headstock inside the bars. Anyone Ideas?

Cheers

Andy

i will be doing this with clutch and brake big ass bars all the better

My BMW k100 motorbike i had, had brake pipes through the headstock using a tubular set up

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t466/steveatthemorgue/reliant%20trike/null_zps8b3f8333.png)
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t466/steveatthemorgue/reliant%20trike/null_zpsea6b4f4b.png)

Cheers guys.

I've put 1" bars on (3mm wall) so have some room for manoeuvre inside, not a lot but should be enough. Interesting your BMW had a solid tube in the headstock Steve. I had wondered about whether to use flexi or solid through the bars. Flexi will be easier to terminate nicely, fixed is much smaller but will require some clever thinking to terminate nicely outside the bars.

How you planning to do it Stumpy?

It was hollow, you see the tube that the branded lines connected to it fed through the tube

3/16 copper internal and make up braided lines to run on once im past headstock female joint on copper male joint on flexi banjos at masters easy

So the copper all the way to the master ?

yup thread it through small hole in bars and flair it after .... i will post pics when i get there

grommet in the hole?

noooo drill bit lol ... grommet a good precaution but will mean bigger hole  its your choice my hole will be on underside of bars so water less lightly to get in 

Ha ha ha. Was wondering about Mr MSVA man more than water, sure any wires need grommets when going through holes. Good idea to put it on the bottom though - why didn't I think that - DOH!

Would use a s/steel braided flexi hose myself.

What's the thinking behind that vs copper ByzMax?

the braided may wear less if theres vibration?

iv seen copper ones wear through if chafing

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself, Stumpy seems happy enough with just copper though. Maybe copper with a rubber sleeve over my be the optimum. I was going to use braid originally, then looked at the size of the hole I would need in the bars and wondered about that. I may play this weekend with some mock ups.

Copper although flexible will harden and become brittle over time with vibration etc as it will no doubt be rubbing inside and can wear through as it is soft. You won't know this till it goes pop or cracks. To be on the safe side use a flexi stainless with a compression fitting so you can pass the pipe through and then put the ends on. Or just make the hole big enough for the compression nut. Also if you are worried about the size of the hole weld a small tube in it (crush tube) and have it pointing in the direction you want the pipe to go.

Hope that helps

ohhh no what am i to do all my rear lines are copper ... brittle brake failure i might crash AND my car has copper brake lines
better check that perhaps i could sell to some one that dont know of all the danger they are in its quite an old car 62 plate
i wonder how long its got left
maybe ill just stay in untill the car sells !!!! maybe someone will come up with a yearly test to make sure we are all safe
 

car lines are clipped to the chassis etc, they cant rub unless something goes wrong, as long as the solid pipe isnt rubbing where the holes are drilled it would be ok, i think a grommet/rubber a good idea though as previously said

:D :D :D

There is nothing wrong with using copper but as Digger pointed out it's not the material it's the circumstances and it's used in. They use steel now  not copper. Does that say that steel is the best option or the cheapest.

I had a copper brake line split on a trike after a couple of years use and probably due to vibration.

I don't know how long the bars are on this machine. How much vibration is it subjected to due to the unrestrained length?

Point is it'll cost little more to use stainless and it will do the job for that area and the rest of it that is outside the frame and can be inspected and clipped at regular intervals will be fine in copper.

In truth most custom vehicles don't get enough use to suffer stress fatigue  generally but is that a reason not to do the best job you can? Good practice that is all!  ;)

Some Reliant axles use wheel cylinders which slide on the brake backplate with the obvious flexing of the copper pipe .
Having said that you would have to be very unlucky indeed to suffer a fracture if you had good enough bends in the pipe .
.
.

Its the chaffing I'm a tad concerned about. Decisions, Decisions .....

a tube of silicone squirted inside the bars will sort that out ::)

A very good solution

Yep it probably would.

Make sure have inserted all other cables wires first if you are doing that though. 

Fifer. Yep it was unlucky but it was on a straight section of pipe and caused probably by not being clipped down enough. over time it just work hardened where it was flexing. I bought the trike and rode it every day for 4 years and it lasted about 18 months before splitting.

Anyhow it's up to the individual to use what they deem to be the best in the circumstances. An opinion was sought and stainless braided flexi is my preferred option. Other have theirs  ;)

Im going to get a length of braided and have a play as well. Will post pics (for Merv) :)

 ;D

Ok, So I did a mock up to see what could be done. As I will be making holes in the bars, I want to keep strength there, so I am planning to use crush tubes. by careful bending of these I can also make the contents come out in the right place without any chafing (I hope).  Here are some pics. Comments anyone??

Bars are 25.4mm diameter, 3mm wall Cold formed steel tube. Not a lot of room inside the tube, so getting around junctions will be fun, but I have a plan for that :)

looks good Andy probably the best way to guide the wires would be to run welding wire through them as your building them,or is it to late for that?

No, Iv'e done that. Will use that to draw some thicker wire through at the right time, then feed the stiffer brake tube over that using it as a guide wire.

yep that would be the way to go i was going to do that but forgot at a critical time so it never happened :(

looks weak with so many holes so close have not started mine yet ... but will be using 38mm tube with a reducer at grip ends down to 7/8ths
and weld a tunnel in to the reducer hence no room for braid for me i will get round to mine soon

There is a reducer in these  from 1" to 7/8. That inserts in about 2.5" so i have just gone past it

are you welding or brazing in your crush tubes Andy?

Welding

does it really take that much strength away then?

I dunno, its near my wrist so i think as long as its a fair bit stronger then any pressure i can apply it should be ok, waiting for opinions

Holes near the grip end of the bars are not really a problem (within reason). It's where the cables exit near the headstock that you have to worry about.
It's a matter of leverage ( force x distance )
For the switch wiring, it is usually fairly easy to modify the switch, to have the cables enter the bars actually under the switch. That way you don't see them at all.

shouldnt worry, they used to put large slots in kawasaki bars for the wires and the tube looked thinner than yours,
only time i saw those bend was on a kawi 1100 shafty when he fell off,

Honda did a similar thing. They put the slot under the bars between the clamps on the yoke. I believe they also reinforced that area.
A while ago I tested putting a throttle cable inside some bars as an experiment. Adjuster was threaded into the tube. Worked but couldn't be bothered with the hassle if I wanted to change anything. Now all my cables and wiring run outside the bars.

was it for an internal type set up inside the twist grip ON ,it looks like it would have been really neat

 It was for a reversed lever system similar in action to a vintage brake lever . Fits onto the end of the handlebar with the cable inside the bars. It was just an idea that I was playing with.

Sorry Old's, could you explain this a little bit more, I don't quite get it

that would look the job ON,maybe for one of your future projects

Most switches seem to have the wiring exit in line with and under the bars, with a clamp plate holding the wires in place, to stop them being pulled out.
If you remove this plate and drill a suitable hole in the bars so that the switch housing covers this when fitted there is no visible wiring. Once the wires have been moved out of the way this plate may have to be refitted as it may hold parts of the switch in place
On some it's might be easier to separate the wiring of the top and bottom sections of the switch housing and drill two holes one for the top and one for the bottom sections. Remember to leave excess wires in the bars to allow the switches to be partly removed for any future maintenance.
 Hope that make some sort of sense.

Thanks Old's

If you are using larger diameter bars with a reducer this is difficult to do. I guess that's why Stumpy is putting a tunnel into the reducer. May do that myself having thought about it some more

So, having thought about it some more I've cut a channel in the reducer and am going to modify the switch so the wires disappear into the reduced directly inder the switch, thanks to Stumpy and Old Newbie for that idea :)

And ive also fitted the first of the 2 outlets for the accelerator and brake pipes. The first attempt / mockup looked horrible, but this second attempt will be OK I hope.

Put a little angle on the crush tube so that the edge doesn't cut into the accelerator outer sheath when withdrawing it, then welded it into place.

So welded it in, then spent an age carefully dressing the weld, quite pleased with that. Needs a small rubber grommet in the end to really finish it off and prevent any cable chafing, may end up making my own out of the sheet of silicon rubber I have. something conical may look good.

Looking much nicer. :)
You can buy cable end rubbers but a neat (cheap) solution is a short length of wiring cable shrink tube.  You might also be able to use the narrow section of an old rubber spark plug cover.

Finished the right hand side now. Wires will run through the cannel in the reducer, leaving a clean look to the whole thing

good job Andy wish i'd done that now!

Its taken ages! And now i'm looking at ON's internal throttle and wondering if I could have done that. There is always something you see after you have done yours, ideas for the next build hey!

yeh but don't tell the wife  ;)

Nicely done Andy.
Remember to align the slot in the reducer with the wires before welding it in. It's a real pain if you get it wrong ( been there, done that :P)
As for the throttle I'm sure you could have, but integrating it in with internal brake pipe and wiring would be difficult. I have nothing on the right hand bar, other than the throttle.

Lookin' nice Andy. As you say, it's handy to share, or just downright steal, ideas from others here.  ;D