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Title: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 22, 2013, 05:19:56 AM For a while now I've had an idea about building an Edwardian era speedster. The premise being, a road legal, stripped to the bone, two seat vehicle
of the very early 1900s. These were I suppose the earliest 'HotRods'. Very good chance that nothing will come of this but I've started this thread, to try to work out what can and can't be done, in getting such a vehicle on the road legally (and cheaply), without going down the 8 point rule road . Hopefully this will help not only this possible build but other builds where BIVA may be required. As always, constructive comments and any ideas are welcome :) Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: panthershaun on September 22, 2013, 07:58:45 AM good man, will be watching with interest...
Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: kapri on September 22, 2013, 08:12:42 AM To start with less is more .No doors and no screen means no need to watch out for hinge projection, scree demist and washers and wipers, all perfectly acceptable not to be fitted.
If you lay out your planned style and 'must have' components I can advise what you need to watch out for . You can get the BIVA manual from this link and it is updated roughly every 6 months . https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-vehicle-category-m1 Please note that the manual contains info on both BIVA ( Amateur build ) and NIVA ( OEM build ) . I think it's about the last 10 sections that are relevant to NIVA so can be ignored. To qualify for Amateur build it must be built by yourself or with help from others who are not in the business of buildings cars for a living. They require photos of the build and receipts for ,at the very least, major components used. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: kapri on September 22, 2013, 08:17:31 AM Registration number afterwards .
The vehicle does NOT have to have a Q though there are advantages to the Q .Signals immediately the vehicle has had an inspection, also rules are pretty convoluted so you tend to get left alone and with regards to MOT if any queries reverts to default 1974 manufacture assessment. If you want an age related plate for the vehicle you must use a new chassis and two major components from a vehicle for which you have a donor logbook. Components are usually engine and box but front and rear axles or front and rear suspensions are also acceptable. Ie if you used Cortina ABC123V engine and box you would get number *** ***V NOT the original number of the donor. You will receive a Q if you use a modified OEM chassis or have no donor logbook. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: kapri on September 22, 2013, 08:36:20 AM Also vehicles must use self adjusting front brake s so generally most go for discs which can be disguised for an old time look or there are certain American spec drum brakes that ARE self adjusting.
Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 22, 2013, 08:40:21 AM Thanks Kapri
OK ideas so far include :- Flat top channel chassis rails similar to an early T. Boxed only where strictly required. Fairly small engine and box, possibly MGB (it's never going to handle like a sports car) but no bigger. MGB rear axle, not wire wheel type, but one fitted with splined adaptors. (cheaper and increases the width) Straight tube front axle, to take MGB trunnions if possible MGB wire wheel centres laced to 19" rims (done wheel lacing & truing before but only motorcycle :-\) Early Land Rover steering box and column. Couple of problems I can think of, are the seat belt mountings and the requirement for head restraints. The seat belts thing has possibly been overcome by a suggestion from my son. Fitting a dummy,taller oval fuel tank, hiding A frames incorporating the upper mounts for harnesses, so it appears that they are bolted to the tank. The real tank being mounted below the seats ( better for handling ) Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: scannerzer on September 22, 2013, 10:40:51 AM Quote from: kapri link=topic=13295.msg183904#msg183904 date=137983756. They require photos of the build and receipts for ,at the very least, major components used. [/quote does this apply to trikes as well as i have no receipts for basically anything,even some of my ebay stuff didn't come with receipts Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: kapri on September 22, 2013, 10:44:21 AM Quote from: kapri link=topic=13295.msg183904#msg183904 date=137983756. They require photos of the build and receipts for ,at the very least, major components used. [/quote does this apply to trikes as well as i have no receipts for basically anything,even some of my ebay stuff didn't come with receipts No idea I'm afraid, haven't had any dealings with MSVA side of stuff just old SVA and BIVA. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: kapri on September 22, 2013, 10:49:43 AM Thanks Kapri OK ideas so far include :- Flat top channel chassis rails similar to an early T. Boxed only where strictly required. Fairly small engine and box, possibly MGB (it's never going to handle like a sports car) but no bigger. MGB rear axle, not wire wheel type, but one fitted with splined adaptors. (cheaper and increases the width) Straight tube front axle, to take MGB trunnions if possible MGB wire wheel centres laced to 19" rims (done wheel lacing & truing before but only motorcycle :-\) Early Land Rover steering box and column. Couple of problems I can think of, are the seat belt mountings and the requirement for head restraints. The seat belts thing has possibly been overcome by a suggestion from my son. Fitting a dummy,taller oval fuel tank, hiding A frames incorporating the upper mounts for harnesses, so it appears that they are bolted to the tank. The real tank being mounted below the seats ( better for handling ) Everythig else listed is do-able. Steering depend son how it is being used side steer or cross steer with cross steer being the simpler method for the test. You have to be careful with the wires , centres of rims must meet a certan radius if they protrude past rim edge and definitely no spinners etc , at least not while being tested. Head restraints don't have to be part of the seats . They can be mounted on a seperate\frame bracket IF the main seats are fixed so no adjustment.So it's possible to fit a roll bar that would provide mounts for both seat belts and head restraints. Forward diagonal chassis brace could be hidden behind b post backwards bodywork. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 22, 2013, 11:36:37 AM .So it's possible to fit a roll bar that would provide mounts for both seat belts and head restraints. Forward diagonal chassis brace could be hidden behind b post backwards bodywork. What B post and bodywork ? ;D Would like to not fit a roll bar hence the hidden mounting frame idea. Being hidden it could be very strong but not detract from the styling. Think the head restraints could possibly mount off of this as well but I am leaning towards them being attached to the seats Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Tony oily bike on September 22, 2013, 12:42:42 PM Looking forward to seeing the new project take shape, and reach completion!
Good also to see how the step-by-step "hoops" that have to be addressed get dealt with regard to BIVA. Good luck! ;) Have seen some of the original Edwardian motors in action at Prescott 10 or so years ago, always entertaining. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: kevsky on September 22, 2013, 01:59:43 PM have you thought about a modified land rover chassis seems about the right height and it would take a lovely v8
Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 22, 2013, 07:21:27 PM have you thought about a modified land rover chassis seems about the right height and it would take a lovely v8 :) I've had three V8 LandysI think a bare LWB chassis weighs in at about 380lbs and is a little bulky, so not really suitable. Though I feel one would be, for making a tough Ford AA or BB style pick up. (drawings filed away for another day) Making a chassis would not be a problem, being a simple ladder one and running on tall very skinny wire wheels sort of excludes having lots of power. Please remember that while I want to build this, at the moment this is just to see what would be required to pass BIVA. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Manky Monkey on September 22, 2013, 07:25:43 PM running on tall very skinny wire wheels sort of excludes having lots of power.
-yeah, only an idiot would run a big V8 on skinny crossplies. :P Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 22, 2013, 07:35:50 PM running on tall very skinny wire wheels sort of excludes having lots of power. -yeah, only an idiot would run a big V8 on skinny crossplies. :P ;D The operative phrase there was - lots of power. Not - V8 Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Manky Monkey on September 22, 2013, 07:54:23 PM ;D
Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: panthershaun on September 23, 2013, 07:49:07 AM http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Model-Y-rolling-chassis-Hot-Rat-Rod-special-Heritage-Stock-Car-1932-7-/161111347347?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2582fc1093
good start for a special.. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: panthershaun on September 23, 2013, 08:24:56 AM Land Rover based Brooklands special... as far as I can remember all LR running gear but with a sherpa front axle..
Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: panthershaun on September 23, 2013, 08:26:04 AM no I lie.. home made beam front and sherpa rear....
Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 23, 2013, 08:33:59 AM http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Model-Y-rolling-chassis-Hot-Rat-Rod-special-Heritage-Stock-Car-1932-7-/161111347347?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2582fc1093 Yep. This is at least the second time that this has been listed. Son lives fairly close so will try get him to check it out. Don't think an old tax disc would be enough to keep the registration as there is no mention of visible chassis number. The wheels and axles etc. might be worth saving.good start for a special.. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 23, 2013, 08:48:27 AM Land Rover based Brooklands special... as far as I can remember all LR running gear but with a sherpa front axle.. Land Rover actually made a few 2wd vehicles but I don't think that was one of them :DLooks like the original swivel pin balls have been bolted onto a straight flanged tube. A simple conversion. The 109 would also make quite a good base for a 30s Bentley style vehicle. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: triker_Chewie on September 23, 2013, 09:10:25 PM Quote Chassis number on frame At the time of manufacture/assembly all vehicles were marked on the chassis frame or later body, with the original engine's number, and locating this can involve a certain amount of very careful examination. Please remember that this is the 'original engine's number' as factory fitted. Upright models, including Model Y through 103E all had the number stamped into the flat horizontal surface of the main right hand chassis side rail (left side for lhd), just ahead or beside the cross member rivets of the diagonal brace, just to the rear of the steering box. The distinctive leaning characters are sometimes preceded by a star, then Y for 8hp, C for 10hp, then the numerals, sometimes finishing with a star. This can be read by standing beside the vehicle and once the bonnet is lifted, looking down to the chassis rail. 100E and 107E models usually had the number stamped around the plate, which is held in place by three nuts, which forms the suspension unit upper mounting on the driver's side in the engine bay. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Olds on September 23, 2013, 09:30:28 PM Thanks Chewie. Will ask, but with the description given, I'm not convinced that any number left will be legible.
Update- Checked with vendor and the chassis number has rusted away. Title: Re: Edwardian Speedster Post by: Manky Monkey on September 24, 2013, 08:09:10 AM That really has the look of a LandRover about it doesn't it. Like it.
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