Manky Monkey Motors

been a while since i finished my chop and didnt really know what to do next , a good few months back i aquired the bike you see below ,i never touched it as my dad fancied having a go at restoring an old brit but due to changes in circumstance he has dicided to pass . so i thought i would just punt it on but due to a slight infringment with the evilbays selling rules i ended up not selling it ......... so bugger it ill have a go at doing something with it , nothing to radical though . there are still spares available but getting hard to find certain parts, we dont get a lot of autojumbles up this way so evilbay is my freind for a while .
im starting with a complete strip and rebuild of the engine , gearbox and then carb , the frame is fine and useable as is the yolks handle bars rear springs and front wheel , the tank has a big dent thats right beside the seam on top but hopefully i can sort that . going to be a long build i think :D

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superb mate, make a nice little Farmster/pub hopper  8)

Nice. Please tell me you're going to lose the ironing board seat & fit a sprung solo though.

 That bike screams classic Long distance trialer  ;) But you knew that anyway  ;D ;D
   Enjoy doing it no matter what direction you take with it.  :)

Unfortunately, that 'Colt' motor wouldn't pull your 'at off, never mind deal with a muddy observed section!! ;D ;D ;D

nit i was thinking of keeping it at the main feature  :P


to be honest i think im going for more a lazy bobber with modern bits and peices. got to agree with Morrag , i reckon that it wont have much more power than a cg125  ;D


i do have a question for anyone of a engine mind , the bike has an advance and retard unit that sits behind the points plate , the engine was sat on its side for a long time and water got into this parts of the engine and the unit was a very "fluffy" . the screw heads are well rounded and the other end has been "mashed" , im not sure if this is to act like thread lock or was just the done thing back then , i take it that part of the assembly is suppose to open out as the shaft spins ?

cheers for any advice

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do you like the wire being used as a clip  :P

Electronic ignition could be a plan not sure if any of the kits could be utilised but would think they could.
  MCC / ACTC classic long distance trials are not technical and power is handy but not essential reliability is as important as anything.

That's the Lucas version of an auto, centrifugal, advance/retard unit. Normally, a pair of light springs would hold the "bob" weights in the closed, or fully advanced position. During "snap" throttle opening, the weights would fly out under centrifugal force, against the spring pressure, retarding the ignition under acceleration, simples! when it worked!Where the wire is should be a pair of small external circlips.For the very limited power available from this motor the conventional coil ignition is adequate, and yes, your average Nippon 125 would develop more power, but, what price can you place on a bit of nostalgia!!

Should look like this!

not entriley sure bout the springs Morrag , there were no springs in there when i opened up the casing and i know a man that been restoring the same bike on another forum and theres no springs on his either , although it does have the same "wire as a clip modification " as mine . must have been a fix of the time . on his owever the end of the threads has not been "mashed" over but i think im correct in my thinking going by what you said that the arm should throw out as the shaft spins up .

im not really bothered about the power to be honest , just having an old brit is god enough for me , one day ill get a big one ... bike that is  :P

I'm sure you will enjoy your foray into old Brit. iron! however, without some means of holding the unit in its normal, advanced, condition, I'm not sure how you would effect a retard on accellaration, but perhaps some other member might enlighten you in that regard, Cheers, Morrag

I'm with morrag on this,It's an auto advance unit The bob weights throw out to retard the ignition,
But must have assistance to return hence the springs,The unit will not work without springs,
Possibly they were fitted under the weights as apposed to being on top as in morrags pic.

just lookin at the picture,s that set up may not have had return springs,it may have relied on its own weight to return ,
i have come across the same set up on other aplications ,,mainly mag ign,,

Been a long time since I saw one of those but think they had internal springs, bit like a penknife.

Must have been be spring loaded in some way origionally,for it to work effectively, whereas Magnetos, well all the Lucas or B.T.H units I have ever come across, were either manual advance and retard via lever operated Bowden cable, or used a steel or fibre drive gear or sprocket, with again spring loaded bob weights on its face.So, like your circlips, the springs have probably long gone, and the unit locked at full advance, Morrag

The springs keep the advance /retard unit in the closed { fully retarded } position when stationary .
As the engine starts , the weights fly out by centrifugal force relevant to the engine speed , advancing the ignition till the unit butts against the internal stops .
The engine is now fully advanced and at its optimum power position in relation to where the spark is produced Before Top Dead Centre .
As the points heal wears the gap closes and the ignition get progressivly retarded requiring you to reset the gap to restore full power .
Click the following link from one of the Ariel links below to view the advance /retard unit
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj254/cosmikdebriis/C11gEngine%20Dismantle/4eInsertTool.jpg

If you think about it , what happened if your ignition was too far advanced { timing out }, and you kick started it .
Yep , bruised shins . ;D
The early magnetos had an advance / retard lever on them because the timing was set at the optimum fully advance position .
When you pulled the handlebar advance / retard lever it retarded the ignition so that you had less chance of getting the kickback .
You then moved the lever back to the closed position and the engine was fully advanced .
The later magnetos had an automatic advance retard { same principle as fitted to reliant distributors }
However , lots of folk could not set up the unit at the correct ignition point and many changed back to the old manual magnetos .
.
Found the following Ariel info which might be useful { It also shows the unit with springs attached }

http://www.draganfly.co.uk/data/pdf/ListLH2.pdf


and
http://bsac10c11c12.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3782.0;prev_next=next#new
and
http://forum.arielownersmcc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=506


.

hi guys and thanks for all the input, i kinda understand what the unit is suppose to do .

Fifer , the unit on the link looks different to the one fitted to mine and the dragan fly diagrams dont give enough detail really . but the link from the ariel owners club ( Paul linden's build ) is the same as mine in fact he has been helping me with some other questions i have as my build is on that site also . his doesnt look like it has springs or even location for them to be attached too and mines looks identicle to his .

spanners and old newbie may be onto something though and i think the best thing to do is grind the mashed thread ends and take the unit apart to see how it works  ???

cheers

Nearly all older engines have a spring loaded advance /retard mechanism so that you can get the variations in optimum timing setting .
However , it was common practice to weld or screw the advance /retard unit so that you had fixed timing which meant that the timing stayed at full advance .
Broken ankles were a by product unless you bump started .
Looks like your one might be the same ?
.
.

Oops, excuse the Freudian slip! of course the points are held in the fully retarded position at rest, hence the need for springs, advancing once the engine runs above tick-over speed. I would disagree with the assumption that,"... many folks could not set up.." indeed manual and auto Magnetos were common through out my formative years, the manual being preferred in more sporting situation like the Velocette's I ran in that period, the Auto for your average "cooking" motor!. A "Colt" wouldn't do you too much damage! but a Venom Clubmans broke my kneecap once,a long time ago, when the bugger kicked back, ho hum, happy days! and I still limp ;D ;D.Morrag

I had to fix many a timing fault on BSA and Triumph bikes fitted with automatic advance /retard due to the owners setting the timing wrong .
This caused either lack of power due to being retarded too much or kick back due to being advanced too much.
The old boys who knew a wee bit but not enough to set the timing spot on used the cable operated manual advance magneto and set the lever in the position the bike ran best .   ;D ;D ;D
.
.

I'm one of those "old boys" Fifer, and my own experience marks that as a load of rubbish, frankly. The guys I grew up with on motorcycles were generally very capable in maintaining, what was usually their only mode of transport,for work, pleasure, and everything else come to that! and anyway it was a matter of pride back then that you carried out your own maintenance on your machine. Granted they were fairly simple pieces of equipment compared to today's electronically, multi-cylinder, offerings, but never the less, they generally required a little more than "a wee bit" of know how! so maybe your experiences were just "unfortunate" in that regard.................. :P :P :P :P :P

Gentlemen! No fisticuffs before the ladies have retired to the drawing room & the port's been served, please.

port ...... dont mind if i do  ;D

Jaffa Cake?

ok been out and had a look and well there wa smore crud than i realised so whent at it with a wire brush and indeed i found what looks like mounting points for springs . and i cant remember who said they may have been fitted on the rear of the unit but yes you were correct , now do i lock it up like it was or find springs and refit them  ???

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so thanks again to everyone for the advice and now its time for a port and kitkat  ;D

Now that I think on it , I probably only ever met mechanical dumbos , otherwise why would they let a 15 year old fix their bikes  ;D ;D ;D

Morrag , I apologise if I worded my post so that it came across differently .
That was not My intentions . :(
.
.

"Port and kitkat"
-heathen!

You guys should know that the Port is always served to the left, preferably accompanied by a nice piece of Stillton and a few Water biscuits! ;D ;D so please, let us not see our standads erode!! :D :D :D, kit kat indeed....Morrag

port and stilton  to the left , ----------------------------------jaffa,s and coke,,, -------------to the right  :D :D :D :D :D

bundaburg down the middle

now im not one fir the nanny state but in starting to feel a little persacuted , now us kitkat lovers are not to be feared we are a peacefull kind and we are no different to jaffa lovers  :P . im sure we can all live on this here fluffy forum in peace and harmony  :P

i only really have on last thing to say

kitkats rule  :P ;D

I prefer Battenburg to Bundaburg.

I am willing to HobNob with KitKat lovers as I have a strong Digestive system and I do not care what the Fox’s going to happen to me . 
The road might be Rocky but the Taxi will cope , especially since it is driven by my mate BaldiGari who used to be a Wagon Wheel builder .
Well we came through that unscathed as the Jammie Dodger missed all the holes and we did not go for a Burton .
I personally think that Jaffa Cakes are in the Blue Riband class but  I am Cream Crackered from Dunkin Donuts .

.

 ;D ;D ;D

ok well having had a look at the bike , the frame is fine the wheels are shot , there is no electrics lsft other than the coil , not sure if the stator will , the gearbox has been partially disasembled so i decided the motor was the starting point.
The barrel had water sat in it and was pretty badly corroded and it was hard to tell but the piston was on a +0.50 thou , since the max overbore is +0.60 its goosed , someone had been in the engne before and there were losts of bodges and rounded nuts ,bolts and buggered screw heads . it was pretty easy to strip and ive managed to find a source for new parts so ive ordered a complete set of bushes for the engine and found a second and barrel at +.030 thou we a piston and rings to suit.

inside the head was a bit sludgy , will need to fit a couple of helicoils but a clean up and it should be ok
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barrel was knackered  :(

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A challenging project, but at least old Brits are still fairly plentiful & many parts are now available as reproductions. Good luck with the build.

You can get the barrel fitted with a new liner. Costs a bit but the plot goes back to std ready to be worn out again ;)

Beerenburg

yep that is true but i would have to send the barrel away and due to it being cast iron itll cost a bit in postage , but the plan would be to get that done at some point so i have a spare  ;)

well i got the points cover off and the advance / retard unit , not having much luck finding a relacement unit so i may have to A, refit the unit as was or B find some springs that would suit .
this let me remove the cam gear and allow access to the oil pump gear.


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 Look at trying to get a electronic ignition system on it, i am no expert but i had a Kawasaki Bayou farm quad years ago, it did the favorite Kawasaki quad party trick blow the cdi unit , it was mega bucks to replace around 175 a fair bit in the mid 90s.  A mate now sadly passed away fitted electronic ignition system not sure what sort but it worked brilliantly never gave anymore trouble.
 As i said none to good at new fangled ignitions but one thing i can remember is MSD  Multiple spark discharge ???, that was style of ign unit, if any bright sparks ;D ;D ;D can shed any light on this principe and how to adapt it here should you want to.  Cost me about 20 quid back then for the bits and his imput god bless him, 

hi TN , its something that i have been thinking about electronic ignition , i did a swap a few years back on my first chop . fitting a gpz ignition system into a z550 so i have a wee bit of a idea how it goes , the main problem would be that id have to swap the stator and dynamo to a 12 volt and get a reg rectifier . i have been trawling the internet for a couple of weeks now but i seam to end up back at the same sites and none are any use , i ve even been using the bsa c11 as the search base and the following link is the best ive found yet but i think the site has been closed down  >:(

http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/british-cycle-supply-company-4160/parts-and-accesssories-for-pre1988-british-motorcycles-20367/page-53-fullsize.html

so i could just keep the AAR closed as it was untill i find an alternative  :-\ , i still have to clean up the dynamo and get it tested by someone that knows how to test them  ??? , there a couple of armature winders up here but they are industrial set ups so not sure if they can help on a 6 volt peice

Before you go off on the expensive, time consuming, mods. route, do the following. Overhaul the points set up, and if you can't replace the springs in the short term, then wire the advance/retard unit in the fixed advance position. The Ariel is based on the hugely reliable 250cc BSA C12 of the mid 50's, and has a 6v Alternator, crankshaft mounted, of 48 watts nom. output and is fine for your needs, really, although you can replace the Stator with the later Lucas 2, wire single phase, 10A stator, should you require better lights in the future!. This set up will WORK WELL if suitably cleaned up and maintained, no need to look further!! and its simple, so perservere, and it will run like good 'un, ok.  ;D ;D ;D ;DMorrag

im just really doing some armchair thinking to be honest Morrag , there a few people that i can try with regards to testing the generator so it may be that it was just disconected by one of the owners when it became a feild bike  ??? . as for the AAU i someone pointed me in the direction of a set of 3 different tensoined springs designed for the job , the electronic thoughts were just because its easy to set up  :D .

removed the oil scavanger and pump. some more sludge but no to bad , the pump would turn using a pair of pliers so i took it to bits and found it too was sludged up , gave it a clean and hey presto it was fine , to test it i stuck it in a areosol can lid filled with oil and turned it and yep it seams to work  ;D so it can live in the cap of oil till its needed

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also got some parts today for my bottom end and made a valve spring compressor , sopke to a bloke that does head conversions and he rekond 120- 140 to do a set of hardend valve seats  ??? ??? ??? but as this aint going to be a hard worked thrash machine ill stick with the seats i have using high octaine petrol and maybe some addative  ;D

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There is quite a lot of tosh spoken about unleaded fuel and valve seat recession. I have several old brit bikes, none of them have hardened valve seats and none of them require valve adjustment more than normal. Having spoken to several engineers and my own experience leads me to the following conclusions;
The existing valve seats will have work hardened with use. Hopefully a light re cut or lap will be all that is required to bring them back into useful service.
If the head is cast iron no hardened inserts are required as this work hardens as well. Bikes from the pioneer days through to the late 20's have iron heads and no lead in the fuel and were not problematic. Beware of super unleaded. This fuel (contrary to popular opinion) is not good news. It is slightly thicker in consistency and clings to the surfaces through which it travels unlike regular unleaded as it is designed for injected engines. As a result it can cause strange weak spots through the rev range on carbed engines which are a mare to tune out. To make matters worse different fuel companies have varying formulations making changes from one fuel to another a pain as well. To add to this pile of problems the flame path in the combustion chamber is slower yet hotter requiring the ignition timing to be retarded a few degrees.
My advise would be to use regular unleaded with a proprietary brand of lead additive with octane booster. This brings the fuel to somewhere near what the bike was designed to run on and the added bonus of stabilising the fuel so it takes longer to go off.
Your biggest problem is Ethanol. A plant derived 'green' additive that the fuel manufacturers have to add due to our European chums in Brussels. This stuff will dissolve many types of fuel resitsant hoses and that little Viton tipped float needle in the carb is in peril too. It is also hydroscopic. It absorbs water from the atmosphere and dumps it in the bottom of your tank causing it to rust from the inside out. Seal your tank with ethanol proof tank liner.
I could go on for hours but the shed should have warmed up by now ::)

I agree with Dslam, and its worth remembering that in the late 40's and for a number of years, all that was available in this country was the notorious "Pool" petrol, with a varying octane rating running from rubbish down to "Bugger all", so motor cyclists like my Dad and older brothers just put decompressing plates below the cylinders of their, mostly, single cylinder machines, and rode on! that's the way things were! I run a number of older machines , but the millage they see a year, like most peoples I imagine, would not require hardended seats. So, put together what you have, in as standard form as you can, and run it, hey, whatever you do ain't going to make the ubiquitous "Colt" a road burner, believe me! so, enjoy it as a piece of Brit. nostalgia, why don't you......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Morrag

its ok guys i aready decided the route of unleaded and addative , i was speaking to a mechanic that said back when leaded was fazed out they would put a bag with lead shot into the tank  ??? also thought that as well as valve seat recession it was do to with the valve sticking in the guides as the lead also helped lubricate them.

Think i have managed to get someone that can test the dynamo for me  ;D . and also got the springs for the AAU. will see how things pan out before spending any more cash. so far its cost £210 but that for a second hand barrel , new piston , gasket set , bushes for the bottom end , new valves and guides
i know that some folk will think that is probably too much for an old engine but the rest of the bike aint going to cost that much to do , got a second gearbox for spares for £30

spend half a day in the garage to day cleaning stuff , drifted out the valve guides from the head that i had to put helicoils into but i sat it on the the old barrel that it came of and the faces dont meet to well , rekon there a high point in the centre , i did go over the face with some 1000 grit wet and dry cause i would guess that at some point someone had "cleaned" off the od head gasket with a flap or grinding wheel and the face was a bit pitted , but i never removed that much  ??? . possible warped with heat .

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i suppose the decition is do i use the other head :?: it has a broken fin but all the threads are good , and it seams to be a better matting face , but i am unsure how much play the head gasket takes up . it seams pretty thick but i would want to risk stripping the threads my self

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dont know if any of you knowledgable people know how to measure a barrel , i have 1 at +0.30 with apiston and also the one i dont know , the +0.30 fits int the one i dont know so how do you measure them ? . thinking i may be able to save the original barrel without sleeving it  ???

Get yourself a sheet of plate, or at least thick glass, and some grinding paste to true the head up, and grind in circular motion, that will be sufficient to remove minor offset, then combined with an annealed copper head gasket you should be ok.Regards the piston to bore sizing, well I use internal and external micrometers, as its difficult to measure bore taper without,but a rough assessment of piston to bore fit can be achieved with feeler gauge's, ensuring that the rings have been removed from the piston, Morrag

cheers Morrag , have got a nice 10 mm thick plate of glass here and need to get some paste for grinding the valve in so ill give it a try the morn  ;D

ive been told theres an old school guy that does heads , rebores and valve seats and stuff so ill take the barrel in past him and see what he thinks

Valve grinding - that was always my job back when me and my ex used to rebuild engines out of our mates' rally cars - my ol dad taught me when I was about 12!

Wonder if there are any 12 year olds who know what a valve is, nowadays?

My 14 year old doesn't want to know what a valve is . Although he'd figure it out if it was on the end of a PlayStation controller

some people arent mechanically inclined. my father told me that you work to earn money so that you could pay people that are qualified to do the job for you.
i only have been interested in auto stuff for the last 10 years or so

Your father was probably right! and his way you keep this nonsense as a hobby ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ok well not too much going on but a load to report , so ill start with the head truma . i was drilling something at work on the pedastal drill and droped dril bit so bend down to pick it up and on my way back up i managed to cut my forehead on the chuck safety guard  :P . anyways i took Morrags advice kind of , i bonded a peice of 400 grit wet and dry onto a 10 mm thick plate of glass and pressed it so it would stay flat . i didnt have any engineers blue so black marker pen was the best alternative i could think of . i painted the machined face of the head and then ran it round in circles after 5 mins i could see that the faces tappers off on the outer edges  :( . i spent another hour at it and its prett good now but there another possible problem , i fitted the new valve stem guides and started to grind the valves but i think the exhaust seta may be on its last leg. i have a psar ehead but it has a broken fin so i didnt want to use it but its all servicable other than that .

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the exhaust seat doesnt look like there to much meat left ( 12 oclock possition ) but il keep going with it and see how the valve beds in before deciding
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also cracked the crank case open and it looks pretty clean inside so no problem . then i split the crank and i am unsure as to whats going on with the big end . there was no fluid or oil in the crank case but the bearings seam to have been sat in fluid of some type . the rollers are pretty badly pitted and theres staining on the pinion, i have a spare so im not to bothered in fact my spare conrod has a better small end bearing bush so that will be used . i have a mate that pressing in the new crank case broze bushes for me as i dont have a press and its not worth buying one but i may have to speak to a machine shop to "size" the bearings.

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Sorry, off topic a bit, but anyone remember the "Ogri" cartoon from Bike magazine, (think they're being reprinted in Back Street Heroes now), where Ogri shows his dopey mate Malcolm how to true an engine casing up using a sheet of glass & grinding paste? Malcolm goes home to try it but uses bathroom window glass -with a raised pattern in it.  :D

Reprints??? All the Ogris printed in BSH have been brand-new-to-the-world cartoon strips.

Hiya Wizzipoo.
I didn't know Mr Sample was still producing them.
As the man in the orthopedic shoes said, I stand corrected.

These lurkers give themselves away don't they..............    ;)

well been a while .

turn out the head made its own mind up , the exhaust valve was literaly worn away , didnt notice till i started to grind int the new valves and the valve stuck in th guide and the only way to free it was to push the guide back ????? so i have to use the head with the broken fin . its ok i have some belzona super E that i will make a fin from , itl be kina cosmetic but better than a great big gap .

other news is that i got all the new bushes pressed into the cases , unfortunately none of my engineering mates have reamers thats close to the sizes required ! , i have absalutely no idea how to open them out , i tried using a 3 legged honer tool that lasted one bush and then fell to bits .i could put them into the lathe but now they are fitted thats a little tricky . also theres not much info on clearances but have read that its better to fit the new bush and grind the crank shaft to fit ?

anyways the lad i need is on snow clearing duty so itll be a few days before the engine make progress .

so long suckers :D

An adjustable reamer is the only way to go.....Morrag

YES remember Malcom and the frosted glass ha ha ha ;D

been working on another project a street fighter thingy may stick it on once im further ahead , cause i is a little slow at building stuff , finally had a go at sizing the bronze bushes , attempt 1 i used a honing tool as there wasnt much adjustment required or so i thought . turned out i had taken too much out of the main bearing and when my mate appeared with some adjustable reamers it was apparent that i had buggered it up , so i ordered another set , this tiime i used the reamer and also done them before they were pressed in. not sure if its true but i was told that when they are fitted they compress. will find out when they are fitted .

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_1968_zps8b70bb30.jpg) (http://s39.beta.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_1968_zps8b70bb30.jpg.html)

Bushes should always be reamed after fitting, as they will compress the bore when fitted, the degree being dependant of fit, wall thickness of the bush, and expansion rate of the enclosure, Morrag

thats ok though Morrag as i have left the reamer set , so if it does shrink a degree then i can run it through again . i have never used a reamer before but i think it when ok , i actually put some fine valve paste onto the shaft and spun it a couple of times and you could see high spots within the reamed bush .

ahahahaha reamed bush  :P

finally got a bit more done to the ariel , used a reamer on the bushes and my mate pressed them into the crank cases . they did shrink a little but a wee dab of fine valve paste on the shaft and a spin opened it out to allow for the oil to get were it needs too , should have the bottom end back together soon enough
i may not have got it to withing .001" but im sure itll be ok for me , i have actually put other engine together and worked out that the parts have all been crossed between them , i replaced the needle bearings and pivot nuts as the ones that were on was thicker  ??? so i guess that they came from the bsa engine

crank with home made alignment tool

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2120_zpsb570f1d5.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2120_zpsb570f1d5.jpg.html)

dry build of engine

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_1907_zpseb781a02.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_1907_zpseb781a02.jpg.html)

different nuts , the ones that were fitted were hitting the inside of the crank cases ?????

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2109_zps179f9a8d.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2109_zps179f9a8d.jpg.html)

Ooh, shiney cases!

I have had a 'home made', "Alpha" jig for setting cranks up for many years, but prior to that , and originally, under my old Dad's instruction! I aligned Brit. cranks using a heavy straight edge and feeler gauges on the rims of the flywheels, as British full circle flywheels were usually machined to excellent tolerances, with regard to crank pin relationship. so might be worth giving your crank a check using that method Blair, assuming you haven't already done so, of course! ??? ??? ??? Morrag

Hi Morrag

yes we did just that , well i didnt but one of the lads at my work did .

but this is the sort of advice thats short on the ground so thanks

cheers

Hi Morrag

got a bit of a odd question , or maybe not . i rebuild the crank up and fitted it into the cases . all is well but if you spin the crank every third rotation is stiffens up a little and then frees off again , i could understand if it was a tight spot on every rotation, i have got oil in the sump and the pump is working as i got oil coming out of the return pipe.

any ideas ?

cheers for any advice

Well, a few things come to mind. If you have thrust washers fitted either side of the crank pin, they may not be concentric, but that's unlikely. You trued the wheels priors to building the bottom end, and sometimes, when the crancases are pulled up they "pinch" the wheels opposite the crankpin, which will give you the sort of tight spot you are getting. When I trialed Bultacos and Montessas, years ago, I made a "T" bar with a lower flat to give a cam action, so that once the bottom end was assembled, you could put it between the wheels, via the crankase neck, and "tweek" them back to true, after assebly. Put a dial guage on each shaft to check.Finally check the rod to flywheel &/or thrusts, to ensure equal clearance is maintained over 360 degrees of rotation. It will likely be sumat simple though!! ??? ??? ??? Morrag

Yep I'll go with Morrag on the flywheels needing a tweak.

ok i get what you are saying , i shall split the cases open again and remeasure the crank . i spoke to an old school mechanic today and he asked about my use of the reamer and thinks i may not have left enough clearance . but will check the crank first

cheers guys

Not quite understanding the every third revolution part though. Every rev I'd suspect the crank. Every other rev and I'd be looking at the cam or timing gears. How is the oil pump driven on this engine?

well Old newbie , it get even more weird , i took the carank to a mate engineering shop and one of the lads there check the crank and rekons that i was a ba hair oot or a thouchtie as we say . i re assembled the crank and from tdc every sixth rotation stiffens up a little , the cam has been removed so its not that , i will have to remove the oil pump gear and retry , my thinking is that this turns on a slower rotation through the gearing you if know what i mean , i have a spare so if its that i have a replacement .

i do have a another little question , the oil pump drive gear is located onto the end of the crank shaft and has a wood rough key , the securing nut has a lockiing tab washer but i cannot see what it locks against , in fact the nut doesnt even tighten up enough to pinch the washer . and if i do fold the tab surely it would just spin off , or is this the wrong kind of tab washer and its suppose to lock into the strange grrove in the oil pump drive gear ?

im starting to get a bit lost on something that should be simple

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2132_zps4937927f.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2132_zps4937927f.jpg.html)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2133_zps48e1baac.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2133_zps48e1baac.jpg.html)

The tab washer appears to have its inner 'nib' missing. This would normally locate in the drive gears keyway, then once the nut is hardened up, flatten the outer tab against the nut, as as usual. A touch of "Nutlok" wouln't go amiss, either,also check the shaft for truth before you install, you never know, it may have a slight set in that sides shaft! Morrag.

The notch in the face of the gear suggests the lock washer should have a small tab or be deformed into this notch with a punch.

cheer guys , when i got the bike there was almost an entire spare bsa c11 engine in bits , after a bit of working out it lloks like many parts had already been swapped about so it may not even be the proper tab washer , i kindo figured that it should locate onto the groove in the drive gear but just checking . thread lock is a good call

anyways been back out and removed the oil pump drive shaft and the 6 turn tight spot vanished , i then removed the oil pump and put the shaft back in and still no tight spot so suspect is the pump. already had it opened up and cleaned it out so i may have reassembled it incorrectly.

progress .... maybe 

and the tab washer saga continues , theres a notch in the ooil pump drive gear and i assumed that the tab washer would locate into there however i happened across a man that has restored a couple of BSA c11's and he says the tab washer didnt locate into anything , and thats kindo of what the guys at draganfly thought may be the case , but since i have plenty of thread lock i should be ok .

on other news the barrel that i got second hand has some pittin on the head gasket face so i whent to visit my mate at the machine shop , its not something hes done before but is willing to give it a go  ??? still for a free service i cant complain even if its crap

thought i would be able to start getting the top end back together but had to wait for some parts , the plate you see below was supplied by a company , when i phoned to complain about the shape of it the man did a bit of typing into his computer and said "sorry lad but that's an original part , we didnt make that " no wonder british bike building took a nose dive
 
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/d356600f-b5c7-4ad6-bf1c-ec5a80507471_zps97be153a.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/d356600f-b5c7-4ad6-bf1c-ec5a80507471_zps97be153a.jpg.html)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2157_zpsff23062f.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2157_zpsff23062f.jpg.html)

O.K, I give up -what is it?

whats what ?

The plate with the holes in it.

its a plate with holes in it  ;D :P ;D :P ;D , im so funny ..... its just a plate that sits on top of the rocker trunnion not really sure what its there for but its supposed to be there.

there was a modification made to allow oil to be sent up to the trunnion and rockers it was originally just oiled from the oil mist but the new trunnion has a slot in it so its maybe to do with that as i cant see it on any of the original parts lists. the modification allowed oil to come from the return oil feed pipe up to the rockers . wasnt a very pretty modification
 

Erm - isn't it going to need more modding to make it fit?

well its been a while since i updated this thread , as this is a side project theres no rush to get it done however life throws things in the mix and i may have to sell my house ...and thus my bikes , i always hate seeing unfinished projects for sale that say "just needs -fill in the blank - to finish" , i dont think this would be the case with this as it still need heeps :lol: to finish . but i have managed to get the head sorted after a bit of fannying about this meant i could get most of the block back together :D apart from the timing gear ,i mentioned the advance retard unit before but i kept looking at it and thinking something just wasnt right about it as i had to use a pry bar to open it and a vice to close it . i had bought a set of springs and when i seen these realised that the unit was seized . so i set about taken it to bits

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_2522_zps0cdece36.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2522_zps0cdece36.jpg.html)

looks like someone had overtightened the retaining bolt and squashed up the shaft , as its tapered i couldnt just clamp it in the lathe jaws , so i machined up a bar to shove up its arse , worked quite well

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_2523_zpsa1562c2a.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2523_zpsa1562c2a.jpg.html)

one snag was whilst dismantling it i broke a lug off one of the weights so i had to weld on a bit and then file it to shape

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_2527_zpsf82a3bd3.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2527_zpsf82a3bd3.jpg.html)

he unit now works as it should and i have a new set of springs on the way - boost

this is how the block looks - lightly polished cause i really dont have the patient to do it proper

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_2540_zps15b6cc5b.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2540_zps15b6cc5b.jpg.html)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_2541_zps0d2e3c51.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2541_zps0d2e3c51.jpg.html)

so i moved onto the gearbox , i had a problem locking the clutch but after a while i got it off , there was some damage to the middle bit ( i dont know the name of the parts  :-\ ) but there's a cush drive in there but the rubber has melted and is really sticky  ???
not sure what to do maybe see if i can make some polyurethane replacements

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/th_IMG_2548_zpsb513ea44.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2548_zpsb513ea44.jpg.html)


till next time , or you may see it in the "for sale section " if things go against me  :'(

Hello mate. Nice to see you here again, but sorry to hear about the house thing. Hope it works out for you.
Block looks nice.

Lets hope we don't see in the for sale section.
You may be able to get the rubber buffers from Draganfly. Or perhaps you could use cush drive segments from a rear wheel rather than polyurethane.

i havent really been away , just havent posted or made a whole lot of progress, i have got another project on the go as well so that taken a bit of my time up as well , and then there's the lack of inspiration , sometimes its a struggle to get of my backside and do anything . and this is not me normally

however me and my x have decided that we have to settle the house , the plan is to buy her out if i can afford to . if not itll be for sale and ill have to find a new place, we still speak and there is no bad feeling and i even get my doggies for sleep overs hahahah


i got hold of Draganfly this morning and the replacements are on the way already , probably be here before i need them lol started to strip the frame down so i can send it for blasting , the plan is to paint it myself to keep costs down

i had a look at the wheels today and they are going to need to be sent away for spokes and rims £££££ , gearbox next though
 

been doing a bit of spray painting , bikes going to be a bit of a rattle can special . think this the best way to do it as i can get it all back together and itll look ok , then later on i can do the whole thing again but without the engine and box needing done

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2593_zps64ca3560.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2593_zps64ca3560.jpg.html)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2592_zps4361a05c.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2592_zps4361a05c.jpg.html)

also had a go at elctrolisis to strip the tank . however after 48 hrs it had removed most of the rust but not the chrome , ive tried bleech , brake fluid and oven cleaner but its on there pretty good . going away to speak to my friend that has an industrial blaster , way bigger than my garage one

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2587_zps3c7d250e.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2587_zps3c7d250e.jpg.html)

Nice to see it starting to come together again. :)

cheers , the main problem is not knowing what parts i need until i need them if you know what i mean , other than the tank the wheels will be a problem and shall only get done once i have funds  >:( .

still got to sort out the kick start shaft  ??? once ive done that i can get the gearbox back together

Building wheels can be done at home. It's time consuming but you can save a fair bit. Main thing is never to take rim off the hub until you have taken some basic measurements and made a careful note of the lacing. Pics are a good idea.
A trueing jig is essential but easy to make.

i think i may cheat a little to be honest Old Newbie , if all the spokes are the ( i havent checked yet) i may get them blasted and powder coated . its not a full resto job anyways so not really a worry . also found out today that the paint is not solvent proof hahahahah

after getting new bearings and headrace adjuster sleeve i got the headset refitted , also go the plungers rear end back on too

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2599_zps0c5cef53.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2599_zps0c5cef53.jpg.html)

i think this is how itll sit for a while as i need to put the gearbox back together im going to copy the idea of a man on another forum for the kickstart shaft , ive ordered one for a cg125 . its almost the same shape but has a 16 mm splined hole and the Ariels was 18 mm (5/8") so ill dremmel new splines into the shaft

Well, your an optimist, if nowt else................ ??? ??? ??? ???

not really Morrag im actually a realist , and i fully understand that i may just me building a bike shaped paper weight  ;D  :P, i take it your referring to the shaft idea ? if so i really cont think of any other way around it . i cant find a replacement and other than tinfoil im out of ideas . 

well new gs 125 kick starter arrived today , spent a wee while in the garage with a very small grinding disc and had a go at recutting the splines , seamed to have worked but i can only get the starter on in the upside down position  :P not really handy  ;D

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2613_zps55b0d4ab.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2613_zps55b0d4ab.jpg.html)

just need some gasket paper and i can try an put this lot back together , and not just shove it all in the casings and hope  ;D

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/bummer2220/IMG_2614_zps5aa925ad.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bummer2220/media/IMG_2614_zps5aa925ad.jpg.html)

You're a brave man blair!

Shall I tell you the story of my Moggy Minor?  My then hubby bought a gearbox for it from an A35 but the casing wasn't the same so he had to swop the innards over.  He did a great job except that I had the only Moggy in the UK - probably in the World!  that would engage first gear and reverse at the same time.....   and second gear and reverse, and so on.  At least you won't have that problem!

doing a great job there sir :)