Manky Monkey Motors

No I wont use THAT usual word to describe it ,for the same reason TB wont say G*****t
 I need to buy a lid soon. Only ever owned an open face stadium one as a lad,which cost something like £1 17 6d ! I think I would like a full face flip up front type,where the whole front lifts. Whats best or is it just personal preference? I see prices of £200 upwards. are the more expensive ones a better fit or summat? Please discuss........

hi from personal experience,buy the best you can afford, i got knocked off my RSV millie (rip :'() i had my cheep £70helmet on i used for work. i flew 27metres to be stopped by a curb stone the whole chin guard of the helmet smashed off it was only a plastic helmet. i own a £300 agv which is lighter comfier and stronger made of carbon fibre, id still be crying now if i wrecked that one. moral is you get what you pay for and could well be the difference of ending up brown bread or not!

Hi Rodeo,
I used to work at a bike dealership and am a drag/sprint scrutineer so I know a little about skid lids. First and foremost the fit is the most important thing. Everyone has a different size and shape of head. Each manufacturer makes hats for a specific shape through the size range. For example, Shoei hats are for rounder heads whereas Arai hats fit a more egg shaped crown.
With regard to quality, you get what you pay for. Cheap polycarbonate hats will meet the minimum standard so disregard those. Look for something that is ACU gold standard.
My plan of action would be to go to a large dealership or bike clothing store and find out what fits. Then look for the the style you like within that manufacturers range. Check under the lining inside the hat it will have a date of manufacture. Don't buy anything made over 18 months age. Don't buy on the web. Different countries have different standards and the same hat made for the south American market for example will be constructed to a lesser standard to meet their criteria (a generalisation no an absolute. Not all makers do this ) Choose if you want a double D or 'seat belt clip' type fitting. I prefer double D fitting as its easier to adjust and remove with gloves on.
I recently paid over £400 for a new Arai. Plain black but top quality. Another £80 would get a flashy paint job but I would feel a bit of a knob in one of those given the shrapnel I ride!
Hope that helps.
Any questions? discuss further............
Andy.

whats wrong with an owd ,,corky,,,,?????? ;) ;) ;)

i read a helmet test colum in a bike mag once it said some of the cheeper range manufactures only test on the top left hand side so just to meet safty standards they only put a small strip of the specified reinforcment on that patch as there all tested in the same place?? im not sure to the truth in this. :-\

%0+ years ago an old stager, then, gave me this advice when I asked a similar question, he said..."If you have a £5 head, buy a £5 helmet!!!...." no more to say really! and that was in the dark and distant past, when flat caps were more common than helmets!....Morrag

I was an ACU steward a while ago too, and DSlam's totally right in what he says.

The method of BS testing is prescribed, so any make/model of lid that is BS approved will have gone through the same test regime. Bear in mind that to get a BS mark, it has to pass a 'minimum' requirement. Many lids will have exceeded these requirements, have added features and overall higher levels of protection, usually in proportion to how much they cost.

I've been on Police courses, were the Police riders gave up their own time to help us mere mortals learn some skills, and chatted about lids. I've seen examples of post-crash (and fatality crash) lids, and lids that have been cross sectioned to reveal their construction, and yes, I've seen cross-section of a model from a once renowned manufacturer who was bought out - the name continued but the quality sure a hell didn't - there were 'thicker regions' at the area where the tests were carried out!!

So, visit a big store and try on loads. Hold your head still and try to a) rotate your lid and feel what the lid will do, then b) tilt the lid back and forth, seeing what it does.
Good shop staff should be able to assist...

None of us know what's around the corner, some crashes are caused by others, some by ourselves, a knowledge of defensive / advanced riding techniques could (note I said 'could') be the difference from having a dink, and not..... worth thinking on eh?


Flip-front lids - been informed that if you ride with it flipped up, you can be done as if you had no lid at all!!!

Very interesting replies there guys.....I noticed the police bike riders use the type I described,so thought they must be good?

Some do, it depends on the force.

Slightly off topic now, but if you don`t know about the scheme, google CRASH card.
What the hell, heres the link.........http://www.ambulancemotorcycleclub.150m.com/crash-card-uk-loading.htm

Good idea. Keep meaning to get a donor card as well . I think it should be changed so that you are permanently registered and only carry a card if you do not wish to be a donor.

Doesn't matter how expensive the lid is if it doesn't fit - fit is the most important thing!

The state i'm getting there'll be nothing of any use to anyone :D ;D

While on the subject of Donors. My mum contracted Multiple Sclerosis at a relatively young age (at the time) and made arrangements to donate her body to science. A contract was signed between the old bat (trust me we didn`t get on) and Aston University and when she died that was where she was going. She cancelled all the life assurance policies (one for each kid 6 in all) that were to pay for her funeral because there wouldn`t be one and proceeded to plod on for a good few years more. Come December 1983 Mum starts to drift away, holding out long enough for me to back down from a five year argument (that`s another story in itself), until the 21st when she finally shuffled off this mortal coil. A quick phone call to Aston University went like this:

AU: `allo!!!!!!

US: Is that Aston University Human Biology Department.

AU: Wot??????

US: Is that Aston University Human Biology Department?

AU: Wot???? Oh Yeah. Wot do ya wont????????

US: Our mother has just passed away.........

AU: Sorry to hear that.........

US: Well she has a contract for your department to recieve her body..................

AU: WOT????????????? Really??????????? Do they actually do that??????????????

US: Well yes the contract`s been signed for ages.

AU: You`d better phone back after New Year then mate.

US: NEW YEAR????? What the hell are you on about????????

AU: The Yuniversitty ain`t open mate. There awl orf on there `olidays.

US: Who are you then?

AU: I`m jus` a contracta, doin` mayntenanse on the air con an` fridges!!!!!!!!

US: So what are we supposed to do with mum`s body then? (purely rhetorical question)

AU: I`d cremate `er if I wuz yu, much less messy than stickin` `er in tha ground if ya arsk me..........................click.........bbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



So  a quick whip round between me and my sisters, and £800 later mum went to Redditch Crematorium to be cremated......................................and that`s another story in itself.............................


Sorry to sidetrack your thread Rod.

Many people would willingly give organs but never get round to signing up to the register. It is unfortunate that it is only in sudden death scenarios that the organs are still of use so normally it is from RTAs or strokes/brain injury so is always a traumatic time and the family can still veto the donors wishes.

Something very clos eto my heart as I am only here because I have been fortunate enough to have received 2 kidney transplants , first 23 years a( aged only 33)  and the, after another 6 months on dialysis another 10 years ago. The donors and their families are never far from my thoughts.

It is unfortunate that when the opt out clause was discussed it became about politics with people confusing a purely medical matter with politics and saying that it was a Labour tax on dying:(

I am a firm believer in Organ donorship, after all we have the know how and the ability to exchange damaged organs for good ones with an exceptional success rate and that must be put to use or it is a waste of human endevour. I have lost friends that chose not to have transplants and lost friends because no organ was available, I miss the latter more because it wasn`t their choice.

If there is anything left of me worth using, when I go, then it should be put to some better use than I`ve put it to over the years.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

You might find this interesting......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-15611308

Back to crash hats....DSLAM..why no more than 18 months old?

Too right!  When I'm dead I have no further use for my body, if any of it's any good to someone else, they're welcome.

I've heard people say they worry that their life support might be switched off too soon if someone wants their kidneys or whatever - I'm sure that's not true personally if I'm that bad I'd like them to switch me off please!

Hi again,
18 months since manufacture leaves it with a 3 1/2 year life expectancy (not you, the hat) 5 years is the generally accepted life span of a crash helmet assuming it has not been involved in a prang or dropped. Less for polycarbonate.
Cheers
Andy

I understood it was exposure to light that mettered - if it's been kept in the box rather than on the shelf, it's not using up it's life.

Light only really effects polycarbonate hats and some early fibreglass. The 5 year thing refers to the life expectancy of the lining, internal impact materials and straps which can degrade with age. To be honest I think a hat should be ok for 8 to 10 but why take the risk and why buy something that has a life expectancy that is already 25% spent?

Didn't know that - never too old to learn!

I know you`ll all flip out at this but I only stopped using, in 2002, the open face lid, that I bought for a quid in a junk shop just over 30 years ago!!!!!! I had re lined it, using an old T shirt, about three times and painted it matt black god alone knows how many times. I only threw it in the bin in January of this year!!!!  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

OK dslam ,much appreciated. Im gonna try to get a deal when I go to the shop. I need two lids and some gloves.

Dave...you couldve used it for the bread and milk!

Think we put some plants in it but they all died. ;D ;D ;D ;D

i've got a roof boxer flip front. its crepe. avoid.

Archie ,is that slang for the type I suggested?

Trouble with flip front helmets is the tempation to ride with it flipped up on a nice day.  Might as well have open face.

Roof Boxer.

Shark.

Always a case of personal preferences are helmets, here's two of mine, but over 50 years apart! how times change, ho hum......Morrag

I know which i prefer Morrag.

The first time I came off a bike I was 16 - I'll leave it to your imaginations howe long ago that was.

My helmet was mostly made of some kind of cardboard stuff I think, with a brim that was supposed to protect your face, and side pieces made of leather. 

If I press a certain spot on my right cheek I can still feel a tender spot!

Yep, you have a point Mr.T, mind you old 'ats can make you look like this!!!!!

So today we went to the local Heine Gerick bike clothing store to look at lids.We were made to feel welcome and at ease in the store ,and I explained some of the info I had gained from the posts in this thread, to the guy serving us. I didnt tell him all I knew,but waited to see if he told us some of the facts! He agreed that many types should be tried etc and this is what my daughter and I did.He applied some of the checks mentioned ie he held the lid while telling us to move our head left right etc and he gauged the movement ,and we tried a few before he was happy with the fit ,,and asked lots of Q's about how it felt on our head,pressure etc. He seemed to know his stuff.We were very jokey as we usually are when we go in to a store ,and I think he was a bit surprised at this ,especially when my daughter (19 yrs old) said she didnt think I needed a helmet ,as I am one ::)  ;D,amongst other quips to each other ,much to his merriment! Anyway..... I ended up choosing a Arai Large size and she an Shoei Small.Both just under £400 each (gulp!) He then said there was an offer on which meant that spending over £400 we got £100 per hemet reduction. This would mean buying something small,eg visor spray to bring the price over 400 sovs. I made it clear at the outset that I wasnt ready to buy for around 2 weeks,and he didnt pressurise us at all. the offer may be available in 2 weeks maybe not ,he didnt know.I tried to suss him out a bit but he seemed genuine about the fact.So my question to you lot is what do you reckon about the deal. I need some of your thoughts please!? I obviously want to spend as little as poss,but I know that they are good quality helmets.He said they are made of some sort of plastic with kevlar reinforcing ,is this OK? They were acu stamped and he was very aware of the age thing. They were well under the 18 months DSLAM spoke of.They were full face flip up visor,not flip front.
          Rod

Shoei and arai are both big name branded stuff and generally good quality. Friends have used them and nothing else. 1 swears by arai and likes that theyre light, well fitting and one ofthe quietest out there. The other has always had shoei's. He flipped his gixxer last year in it and it kept his head in one piece.

Hein gericke are good guys and the staff are always great, never have had an issue with them.

You'll be paying a bit more for those 2 brands, but then the last 2 lids I've had have been shocking and they were sub £200. One was an AGV and this one is a Roof boxer.

Hi Rod. have you looked at these.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NITRO-X517-OPEN-FACE-MOTORCYCLE-BIKE-HELMET-SILVER-XL-/120701964735?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Helmets&hash=item1c1a65d1bf

Personal view my local Hein Gericke (over prob about 5 years plus) -

Staff who seem to know what they're on about, are friendly and not pushy.

Was in there today, just checking out some riding gear, had a long chat with a the sales guy, who as usual, was all the above.

He mentioned the offer you were told about (which was also advertised throughout out the the store).

I've bought a jacket and trousers from them in the past, plus a couple of pairs of gloves, and tend to check prices with other outlets if poss.

My advice, check the prices on line, then decide if you'd like to buy from a) a store that you can visit (so if you have an issue you can go back) and who gave you the level of service you mentioned, or b) mail order/interweb where you won't able to try the actual lid before you buy (bearing in mind the same model of lid, in the same size in the same shop can feel different), or c) from a different vendor.

I've had Shoei lids since the 70's and have no complaints. Also have a Arai which really like. Both very reputable brands.

The materials used nowadays are varied............. think others may be able to give you more info......... but if its got the ACU Gold sticker, in my view that's all you need.

Full face Vs open face  - your decision - only time I've used an open face was competition trials, and about 1 month road riding. Great feeling of 'freedom' (wind on ya face kinda stuff, as well a bee sting in my case!).
Just run through the types of crash sceario than none of us want to happen, and consider which style you'd prefer to be wearing.

Yeah Terry,,they are OK I suppose,obviously they need to be tried on ,but judging by HG's range ,probably cheapo inside padding etc.

Just looked generally on line cos I  know the makes but not the models we chose .but  cant see any model in either makes as cheap taking in to account the offer(s). I ALWAYS like to buy personal and local ,especially when theres a fitment issue to take in to account. eg shoes etc.H ealso told us that you can go in to any HG with Shoei or Arai helmets and get them checked /cleaned FOC."So you can end up with a nice clean helmet" (to which there were sniggers from my daughter!)
 FORGOT...........We also get a £20 voucher as well! So will try to get the 2 helmets on seperate purchases/invoices to get 2x £20. Will help toward some gloves..which is another seemingly high cost article for good weather proof ones!
 

"I ended up choosing an Arai Large size and she a Shoei Small"
-exactly what Taz & I ended up with when we went helmet buying a couple of years ago.
I wear an open face on custom bikes & full face on sports bikes. Used to have a Roof Daytona full face, which matched the green of my Triumph Speed Triple perfectly. Very lightweight, but lots of wind noise -the helmet, not me. The Arai seems a good all round helmet -like me.

True - I always bought my gloves from the 'bargain basket' about £15 and ended up with so many pairs as I was always looking for something better/ waterproof.  Then one day while waiting for a tyre to be fitted I idly tried on a pair of £45 gloves - they felt so good I bought them and have worn them now in all but the hottest weather for a couple of years - making all my cheap gloves a waste of dosh!

What about earplugs when riding ? I've heard mention of hearing loss from many years on bikes? Likewise constant wind on face causing Bells Palsy?

Pardon? I often ride my trikes lidless & find there's less wind noise than when wearing a helmet. Obviously the lid channels the wind past your ears. I used to wear ear rings but the lining of the helmet pressed them against my ear & made it really uncomfortable -plus every time I took the lid off I ripped them out. Not sure how comfy ear plugs would be, but a lot of sports bike riders seem to use them.
I have a patch of dry red skin on my cheek, which my doctor said used to be common among farm workers & trawlermen. She put it down to 30 years of outdoor jobs & riding motorcycles.

I've never used earplugs, tried them and I can't stand them!  I do wear a full face helmet but always ride with the visor open a bit whatever the weather, don't like being closed in.

I have found, on the few times I`ve used a full face, that they make me feel too safe, if that makes sense, and then I ride in a way I wouldn`t normally. Because of that I consider them dangerous in themselves no matter how much protection they give.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I understand what you mean Cabman.
  All I gotta say now is  "OUCH that hurt !" Im now just over 600 sovs lighter! (But hopefully safer !) Just paid for the 2 lids!

Well, as a final suggestion, this is what one of my sons bought me for my birthday this year, taking the p...s, or what!! Morrag

Oops, should have attached this......

Like it! But how are you going to get the face mask on??? ;D ;D

ain`t you short !!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Short, short, wadayamean short! I'll have you know I'm quite tall, for a Welshman! being bred to go down t'pit without hitting yer head on the roof!, as we were in my day!.......short indeed....mutter, mutter.......

Morrag lost for words???? ;D

Likewise Morrag  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Collected my lids today from Hein Gericke. Apparently I was misinformed about getting £20 vouchers with the deal,but they told me due to this,they would give me a discount when I go back in there for gloves. Overall Ive found them to be very good service  and no hassle .