Manky Monkey Motors

Well I did it, I went n got me one of them there new fangled inverter thingies!
Tis only a cheap chinese machine but should cope with my needs, only one downside.......I have never tigged or stick welded......yet. I figure the only way to learn is to crack on n do it, I did however foresee one tiny flaw to that plan, when i got frustrated (and I`m sure I will), I`d be tempted to bin it and return to my trusty mig.....so I sold the mig! Now I have to learn to tig  ;D.

Tig is same principle as gas welding...................................have you done that??????

Only complication is getting the polarity right for alloys or steels and the power level......................

obviously (this is me talking here) that is a very simplistic definition, best of luck with it, I always had trouble doing it and still can`t get it spot on. ;D ;D ;D ;D

you ,SOLD, the mig,, :o :o  









you  ,,,,,,silly,,,,,,,,  boy  ::) ::)

I can cope with simple  ;D. This is only a DC machine so no issue with polarity, means I can`t do aluminium though  ::).
I like the idea that it`s a slower more controlled proccess, and no sparks flying around either  ;D

I know, I know. But if I hadn`t, the tig would just be collecting dust in the corner, I know what I`m like  ::)

It actually looks quite neat. Does it feel flimsy and chinesey or good n solid? how much are you paying for argon? and how much was the unit?.........I could be tempted to start trying with it again  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have been a bit dis-organised while sorting this out so I haven`t had chance to fire it up yet.
The first issue was the power supply, this is a 180amp output unit (full power) and will draw 20amps in.
I already had a 16amp supply to the shed for the mig, so I had to check the wiring size, change the mcb in the consumer unit and change the 16amp socket for a 32amp one. With all that going on, I have yet to find time to get any filler rods or tungstans, so thats a job for tomorrow  ::)

better to wire welders into a fused spur than a plug  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Only weighs 9kgs! I`m told thats the new technology involved, no big transformers anymore.
The unit itself feels ok, and theres a nice long lead on the torch, I`m not best chuffed with the switch as thats only cable tied to the torch, as a foot pedal would be tons better anyway, I`ll leave it as it is for the time being but may adapt it later.
Price wise £200 + £12 p&p, cheap for what it is. I know alot of people will be scoffing at the fact it`s a cheapo chinese unit, but.......... It`ll be fine for me to learn with and I don`t do tons of welding these days anymore so i`m happy with it.

Considered that...decided against it on the grounds that with the commando plug and socket, I could use an extension lead if I had to weld outside the shed  ;)

If it does what it says on the tin then cheap is the best thing anyway. Best of luck with it geezer. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thank you  ;D.
I`ll report back when i`ve used it!
Sorry, I forgot you asked about gas....tis my age ya know  ;D
Anyway, I have closed my BOC account and will be seeing a local supplier about Argon. I am expecting to pay a one off bottle deposit of around £50 and the same again for the gas, then just like the old calor gas bottles, you take your empty back, swap it for a full one and just pay the price for the gas.

the best advice i can give is keep your tungsten sharp keep it protruding from about 6mm or1/4 inch from the ceramic for between 1mm to 3mm i use a 1.6mm (16swg) tungsten dont get too close with the tungsten or it will stick (if your anything like me) youll get angry and chuck a wobbler people may disagree but for mild steel at work we use 304 stainless filler and 316 stainless for stainless work it just seems to flow better and you dont get the porosity that can happen with mild gas welding rods be patient practice and it will come to you hope this helps

TIG? Tis the work o' the devil! Mark my words, no good will come o' it.  :o

the old, wise monkey has spoken again  tiz the devils hand that steers the tig  :D :D

that what i use tbone one of fee for bottle rental then just pay for gas.i have argon mix for the Mig and pure argon for the Tig they are just the right size app 36" high and 7" dia don't take up to much room.but its right what you said though all the time Mig there cant be asked to play with Tig. plus i just got bigger Mig with an even bigger argon mix bottle.and at the rate i do welding it will take me years to empty the big one let along start to Tig  ???

who do you use for youre gas supply terry  I.E what brand name or such like

i find tig easier then stick
dont be shy of the amps, you need to heat the work to melt the filler
+ on the clamp - on the handpiece
ive only played around with it, but was making headway

Hi Mike. i get them from my local welding suppliers.the name on the bottles is j&r gases of nelson.
the bottles are on a 3 year rental?right of use agreement.as most are you can take it back and get you deposit back or take out another agreement

might/will look into getting a tig set ,, but,, i allso want a plasma cutter   any cheap one,s out ther???

Hi tbone. Once you start playing around with the tig welder i'm sure you will quickly pick up your own technique. I hold the torch like a pen and press the trigger with my finger,not my thumb.Just get some off cuts of plate and av a practice till you get nice even runs of weld
If your just making boxes and light stuff that doesnt take no stresses,try just fusing them together on a low power setting. For heavier plate that needs filler wire,assuming your right handed,holding the torch in the right hand,moving the bead of weld to the left,and feed the wire in with your left hand.Easy peasy.    

 ;D

     welcome to the world of frustration, and then you will run a near perfect bead and it will all be worth while.

      Tungsten,  get red tip, 2% thoriated 1/16" ,and buy a pack, you'll be half way through them in the first month. If you touch the pool ( and you will , time and time again ) grind it all off and resharpen. Buy a cheap bench grinder and keep it for nothing but tungsten sharpening. Sharpen them long ways against the face of the wheel, don't balance it on your palm, hold it between finger and thumb and rotate it evenly. A long ( 5 to 6mm ) point helps concentrate the arc, not balancing it on your palm prevents it hurting like hell when it digs into the wheel and drives it'self into the fleshy part, smarter people than me don't need to be told that !

      Gas, Argon. Not Argon mixed with anything. You can TIG with many different gasses but it's not just about shielding the weld pool, it also has to promote and sustain the plasma field. Argon.

       Related to gas, flow meter, glass tube and floating ball, not just gauges, get a flow meter. Learn to turn it off when finished, loosing a bottle a CO2 through a leaking gauge set isn't the end of the world, loosing a bottle of Argon can seem like it.

      Torch, you may come to bless that little cable tie holding the trigger on, it will let you position it wherever you feel most comfortable. Comfort is almost everything, I know TIG welders that can stand, kneel or lay in almost any position and run beads without any support, I can't. Get higher than your work and find or build something to rest your wrists on, it will make all the difference.

     Welding, just try it , you will develop your own style based on what feels and works best for you. I know you will have done your research and most of what is said here you will already know , once you find the machine settings that work it's only torch time that will make it better. Something that's not made clear on any tutorial that I have seen is that if you are trying to lay down that perfect "stack of dimes" ( bless those American cousins) it's the dipping of the rod that forms them as it chills the pool , rather than the movement of the torch, although it's that that will determine where the next "dime" lays

    Oh, and have fun, you know where we are if there's anything I can do to help

                                     Steve, aspiring novice

I`ll hold you to that mate  ;D

Brock, excellent tips as usual, thank you. A good point about the trigger, I hadn`t considered that!
Stack of dimes.....probably more like 52 card pick up.  ;D
Having seen your welds, i will be more than happy if mine are half as good  ;)

Just get stuck in and use it!

I love my TIG welder and would not be without it. Practice Practice Practice!


One or two things to add.

Make sure your welding hat lense is nice and clean so you can see cleary.

Clean all metal of paint rust and oil. Any contaminents will cause problems when tig welding.

Get a big bottle of acetone form your local beauty product supplier and use that to clean welding rods and metal to be welded! 

     "Make sure your welding hat lense is nice and clean so you can see cleary."

   I've been doing some low amp stuff recently and was seriously thinking of setting up a halogen lamp on the bench to help with the seeing bit, I bought new screens for the lens instead, the difference is like night and day.

   The cleanliness thing is critical, TIG is pretty intolerant of anything other than clean metal. If you are using hot rolled plate you will need to grind out the mill scale before welding. Acetone is best to wash with, thinners will work, I'm sure you know about not using brake cleaner, although not all of them are chlorinated the down side is sufficent to justify severe prejudice against them all.

   
   

If it does what it says on the tin then cheap is the best thing anyway. Best of luck with it geezer. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hmmm, I don`t recall it saying "explodes when switched on"  :-\
But i`m afraid thats what it did do!
And so did the replacement  >:(
Having tried 2 and had both fail instantly, I am disheartned but still very keen to tig.
I`m now looking at alternate machines and will update this when I find one that works!

W*** THE F***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry to here that mate, but if Lidls or Aldi start selling them  I`d buy one ;D ;D ;D ;D

we pestered the boss at work for a tig for years &he finally gave in this year,got it in for specificaly ally welding but i is now finding the drawback of not having a foot pedal.......only able to do short runs before it all gets too hot to be controlable........i guess a bit more pestering is in order!

   really sorry to hear that tim, I'll stop in and see my mate Paul later and get the details off of is little unit, it's a scratch start DC only inverter machine but he get very acceptable results with it, and I know he won't have paid a lot, 'cos that's the sort of fella he is  :D

   The lack of pedal "throttle" is certainly a hinderance at times, if I'm doing any long runs on thin ally I tend to have the downslope wound right out and just release the trigger until I can get some control back into it

Hi Steve, thank you for taking the trouble but......
I am now the owner of another machine (well i will be later when i collect it).
This one is again undoubtably from the far east, but the company that sells them is local to me, so any issues and at least I can talk face to face with someone. The company and its machines have a good reputation over on the Mig Welding forum, so i`m hopeful.
This one was nearly double the price of the first, so not cheap! but at least it should be wired correctly.
Stay tuned for an update after I`ve tried her out!
Thanks again Steve.

Hope you have better luck with this one tbone.

Can any one tell us or me cause i don't know.what the different size and colour tungsten are for.
and what the numbers on the side of the nozzle mean ???

The tungsten size is straightforward, the thicker it is, the more amps you can put through it.
So for a 1mm thoraited tungsten you`d be working between 15 & 80 amps, a 1.6mm will be ok in the 70 to 150 amp range ect ect.

I have a chart that shows what the different colours are, in short though, they depict what the rod is made up from, as most tungstens are actualy an alloy. Certain alloys will also conduct the current better than others and so will be more suited to ac polarity than dc.
This link will explain.........http://www.aglevtech.net/faq.html

 The number on the ceramic cup refers to the size, not sure how they are measured but a larger cup will give better shielding but hinder visability of the weld.
I think on a butt joint you`d be ok with most, but with something like a fillet, you`d need a small cup to be able to access the run.

Now wait for Brock to turn up and answer this properly  ;D

   will you hell as like, good information right there. That's a huge spec on a machine for that sort of money, I'm jealous. For what it's worth , Paul's is a little 140A Butters machine, adequate is what it is.

size of rod's and cup's ooohhhaaa
sorry guy's am I on the right forum

just had a look to see what size tungsten and collets i got in my tig welder.
1.6 grey tungsten.1.6 collet.and a 3.2 collet body.is that right or will it affect the welding flame  ???

   The grey tip is ( I think) 2% ceriated, one day I will look that up and see what it actually means  ::), however to my simple mind, grey tip-general purpose, seems to weld anything. Red tip- 2% thoriated, for most steels. White tip- someting else in it and used for any alloys.

   I am useing 1.6mm for everything at the moment, I have 3.2's in the drawer ready for bridge building someday. Are you saying you have a mismatched collet set or is the 1.6 collet body already installed in the torch head ?

Hi brock. yes they were in it when i brought it.been using the arc.just started to look at the tig.
the collet that screws into the torch head is   3.3 mm
the other collet that the tungsten slides into is 1.6 mm
the tungsten is 1.6 mm

Grey tipped ones are contain Ceria 2%.

White tip ones are contain zircon. and are therefore Zirconated.

I use the ceriated ones mostly but I do have some Thoriated ones too!

Thoriated =Thorium=radioactive?

Mildly radioactive.

No direct evidence of it being a problem but wear a mask when grinding the tungsten to be sure.

A dust mask not a halloween one  ;D

dont need haloween mask......me ugly enough already!

Have you never heard of Tig Finger? It makes your hands glow a deep yellow colour!  ;D

Nothing to report on the Tig side yet, I havent been able to borrow the Argon cylinder i scrounged before and can`t sort my own supply until payday  >:(

I have however been Arc welding and am very pleased with the result. The last attempt i had at stick was many many years ago and found it to be very fierce.
Can`t say for sure that it`s the machine or the rods but it`s a lot smoother than i remember although the weld bead still looks `industrial` when compared to the Mig.

Hi tbone.you will find the arc welding better.these are inverter welders.
just ordered some new tungstens and collets for mine

again my stick set was bought to patch up my grandads austin cambridge about 35 years ago some times it welds nicely but other times its a 81tch. The portable tig/stick inverter at work welds nice and smooth every time.

will all tig users glow in the dark if we carry on using them  ;D ;D
http://www.diamondground.com/RadioactiveWarning.pdf

got my tig set looking forward to having a play tomorrow (fingers crossed)

Lucky man  ;D
I`m still waiting till i`ve enough spare money for the gas!  >:(

bollox

i have the r tech 200 amp version it is very good indeed, dont forget the glove or your hand will smell of burning hair/flesh after the day.. also try learning the technique of no filler rod by blending in the two materials obviously you need a good fit!, and try pushing your elbow into your side to keep your arm wondering around the place for a sloppy weld....my two cents..:)

i'm not a rank amature, its been around a year since i last had a tig
changed jobs and lost out on a workshop full of machining gear!
gas is waiting but all the other joys of life are in the way

sound investment good tool to learn on not sure if you will get full duty from it on 13 amps is it scratch start or high freq shame you got no pulse on it but you can upgrade as you get the hang of it.. as these thing will always sell on ebay. as far as radio active tungsten its the red tips and to be fair you get more radiation from ya microwave!!! with practice twill be the best tool you ever bought
keep practicing and show us a few pics of ya progress

got a tack or 2 out of it, but have a few probs with the unit. the on off switch dont turn off and while investigating that i found a few  plugs on the electronics side that arent plugged in!
oh well cheap and cheerful

got it together for a fiddle thid arvo. just practse beads on a stainless sheet
too hot too cold too slow too fast
loving the hf pushbutton start, scratch tig no more

Much prefer scratch, always found it more controlable when working on tube, or on 90's,, pedal's even better, but i've always been spoilt with 500amp plant

could bodge a pedal onto my unit esily enough

welded a stainless plate on the end of a 5inch stainless tube, both aroud 4 mm
i think i need a faster switching helmet, mine is 1/10000 but it seems 1/30000th of a sec is reccommeded for tig
i have a slight headach and i'm not sure where its from

Thats not gonna make any difference chewie.


You'll probably find that because you have your head so close to the weld puddle your breathing in Argon and that is what is giving you the head ache.

I get the same with tig  ;)

cool, just saved me some dough

argon is an inert gas wont give you a headache is your helmet activated by light or high frequency starting, pulse can you adjust the shade on your mask ouu ought to be on 12 or 13 shade


stump

Gotta disagree there Stumpy.
Argon is inert yes, but it is also narcotic.


Extract from the safety data sheet:

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS:
Effects of a Single (Acute) Overexposure
Inhalation. Asphyxiant. Effects are due to lack of oxygen. Moderate concentrations may
cause headache, drowsiness, dizziness, excitation, excess salivation, vomiting, and
unconsciousness. Lack of oxygen can kill.

Stumpy, Inert means it won't go bang (unless you damage the bottle) but it's still toxic  ;)

ohhhhhhh well i better hold my breath next time im purging titanium !!!!
we use to have airiators running all over the place in Collage never were we warned of it being hazardous
not that im doubting you in fact thanks i will be a little more cautious in future

helmet only goes up to 11

I thought Argon was like Helium

Not in itself dangerous, but if it displaces the oxygen you are breathing then you will asphyxiate, and as you are still blowing carbon dioxide off from your lungs in the normal way you will not gasp for breath, just pass out.  :o

I belive Argon is heavier than air ;D ;D ;D ;D

its not the density, its the fact that its taking up valuable space in yer lungs that is needed for oxygen.
your breathing reflex is triggered by the presence of c02 so if your lungs fill with ANY gas other then air
you will asphyxiate

but if you were laying on the floor it would happen quicker than if you were standing up ;) ;) ;) ;)