Manky Monkey Motors

So been sorting the shed now for the past 3 days and can almost finally see the floor ;D so I think all being well its about time to get the bits together for my first build.. The question I have for you all is what do you think the min space I will need ??? I plan on building a bike based trike with a narrowed axle but still think I wont have enough room. ::) also as its my first build was thinking of using parts that I have to hand 1 because it should be cheaper and 2 as its my first go it could all end up as a large pile of scrap.. :-\ The parts I have are...

Yam XS750 engine, frame, forks, front wheel etc
Suzuki SJ413 back axle which I will want to narrow to approx 1.4m (same as pitbull)(any ideas)
Plus other bits and bobs.

Will be a hard tail with removable back axle so is it worth trying to use these or would I be better off ditching this lot and trying to find something else.. ::)

Any suggestions would be great. ;D

Never used anything other than a Reliant axle so can't help with the Suzi item really.
I've been virtually living in the garage at the bottom of Ska Man's garden for the last couple of years, in which time we've knocked out several trike rolling chassis from there. At the moment it contains his own blue trike, plus my ongoing project.
It's a standard lock up garage type size -about 8 foot by , I dunno, 16 maybe. More room would be nice but we manage O.K

Picked up the axel today (and it was bloody heavy ;D ;D) no seriously got the axel today off the guy who said I could have it free. It is only 52" wide from outside face of brake drum to outside face of other brake drum.. so its not that much wider than me other trike and if I can find the right wheels with enough offset I might be able to keep the overall width the same... ::)so for ease I am thinking of not bothering to try and narrow it ??? ??? what do you guys think  ::)...How wide is the standard reliant axles that lots of you use. ;D

what is the axle of? ???

I'm not a builder as you know...

But on my trike, the narrowing of the axle means that the diff lines up perfectly with the shft drive from the bike engine - I don't know ehether the engine you've got is a shaftie though.

A suzuki SJ413, its one of thoes little 4wd things (great fun like a landy thats had a boil wash) ;D ;D ;D

Had a quick look at my other trike as going to be using the same frame and engine (Yam xs750 shaft drive) and looks like it will prob just line up as is ::) just bit concerned that it might not look quite right as think bike trikes look better with narrowed axles.. ??? but its not that wide to start with.. ???

Some folks think mine's too narrow, they wonder how it corners.  I've not had any problem, I go round roundabouts at the right speed, never had any problem with an ordinary bend tho.



SJ413

Hiya,
Presumably you're putting the finished trike through the MSVA registration process? In which case, keeping the overall width less than 1700mm will save you a lot of hassle. Above that they test them under much tougher car style regs, (must have 2 headlights within x number of millimetres of the outside edge of the vehicle etc -can't remember the figure off the top of my head).
Standard Reliant axles are roughly 1300mm wide. You mean you need wheels with lots of inset, not offset -they need to come inboard over the axle to keep the width down. Flap's orange trike uses deep dished 1970s Wolfrace wheels, so we had to cut 8 inches out of the axle to keep the overall width the same as a standard Reliant.
The prop doesn't have to line up exactly with the engine -the UJs will take up the difference as long as it's not excessive, but obviously it would look nicer in line. I've never worked on an IRS system & have no idea about narrowing them then setting up the camber etc again.
You could try emailing ByzMax, (his address is in the Members List). He's working on an XS1100 trike with an MX5 IRS set up.

Hi Manky thanks for that knew there was a max width before trouble with the msva started but could not remember, and yes 1300 thats about the width of this one and if like you say use wheels with lots of inset then it can have big wheels but still stay narrow. ;D

It is a solid axle not an irs as it will be a hardtail (think it might be a tad easier) so think in that case I will leave well alone as think it will prob line up ok as it is,  ::) the only thing is the diff will be over to the left not central (but this is where it will need to be to line up) bit like Helene's (small but perfectly formed) trike in 100% biker issue84 but I doubt anywhere near as good.. 8)

Sorry, missed the mention of hardtail when I scanned through the rest of the thread. Helene's is lovely. The only thing I'd change is the bars, simply cos I'm not keen on long tiller bars, but if she's that petite she probably needs them.
A copy of the 30 quid MSVA manual from VOSA would be a wise investment.

I'm a bit surprised about the bars because Helene is the same height as me, but she has had back problems I believe, so maybe that's the reason. Even I quite like her trike.

Maybe we'll get you on 3 wheels yet then Wizz!

No the only likeness would be the position of the axle dont think I could do out that good ::) And yes I quite agree think I must get one..

Pah! Don't be so defeatist! The best looking bikes are usually the simplest. Huge amounts of cash don't guarantee a pleasing finished product & clever ideas & hard graft cost nothing. Ours cost an average of 2 grand finished & on the road, but that's spread over a couple of years each cos we're all skint.

Ditto its all been begged borrowed or stolen at the moment ;D ;D

Is there any other way?

,nope,

Well im on the right track then.. ;D ;D ;)

,eeeerrmm  ,yep, ;D ;D

if you are gonna use the sj axle? make sure its a spanish santana it should have the handbrake in the drums! if that is the axle you,ve got? be prepared for a shock! the brake parts will need a mortgage if they need an overhaul! ie wheel cylinders £54+vat trade each!!! >:( if you wanna go that route i can supply you with an axle i,ve got access to a couple. but i prefer to use the bedford/suzuki van axle with 15in wheels and 225/60/ tyres puts the gearing about right on most trikes! ;)

Hi toad it has def got the handbrake on it but think its off a sj413 or the 413 samurai (hope its just the 413 as it has a better ratio) :-\

Do you know what the ratio of these axles are as this is what is concerning me a bit think this one is about the same as pitbull at around 3.75/1

another little secret is the 410 diff is a straight swap for the 413! if you have the handbrake in the drums its defo a spanish made samurai wider than a standard 413 by approx 6ins. toad the anorak (7 years working for a suzuki jeep specialist!)

depends on what exact model your axle came from? im just gonna check casting no,s etc back in a mo!

It def has the handbrake in the drums, its approx 52" wide and I think (from having a little twiddle) it has a ratio of about 3.75/1

right here ya go. choice of three 4.631, 3.909 ,4.631, they all depend on where it was destined for? if you have any casting no,s it might help me narrow it down?

Cheers toad will have a look tomorrow ;) any idea where the casting numbe will be ::)

on the axle! ;D ;D ;D on the diff housing.

 ;D ;)

Only if I have another combination.

We built a trike a couple of years ago. Swapped for an R1 before we'd even ridden it.  :)

I seem to remember something Capri based back in the AWOL days?

That was actually BSH, and the Capri motor is still in Paul Pointy Wizard Hat Fabrications' garage (although he did get the name for his firm after I coined it in an article).

I went and bought another Capri which seemed a far more sensible thing to do.

Too big & heavy a motor. Youd've been much happier with a Reliant you know.
Size ain't everything.

Had a look but cant see out :-\.. Any way been propping the bits up today on bits of wood to see haw it all looks and think it will be ok ::) just a couple more questions.

How high is the lower frame off the ground where the engine sits on your trikes because with the forks I have to keep the frame level (as it would have been on the bike) they are about 8" off the ground (think this is a bit high as my other trike is about 3" lower)
  Other trike does have bandit forks with smaller wheel but dont think it would make that much differance.

Or is it because there is no weight on the forks so at the mo they are at full length if so any ideas how much I should compress them before I start chopping things about (saw a bike build in BSH where he was on about this but cant find it at the mo)

Hiya Taz.
My own trike's got 5 inches of ground clearance under the sump at the moment, but I'm building around an empty engine -no internals, just a spare set of casings bolted together. I've set the front of the frame about an inch high to compensate for that. Our forks are kicked out at about 45 degrees, which mean they don't compress much in normal use. If you set your frame up deliberately high at the front & it turned out to be too much once it's finished, you could slide the fork tubes up a bit through the top yoke to drop it back down.
Flap has just 3 inches of clearance on the orange Flapster. At last year's Berkshire Triumph Owners' show he couldn't make it over the big rubber speed bump in the entrance to the carpark! 

Thanks Manky think thats what I will do, fork angle is same as bike was so will prob compress quite a bit, pitbull seems to compress almost 2" and its ground clearance not 100% sure as the engine and pipes hang slightly lower than the frame but thats about 5" off the ground ;D ;D..

Any idea how much to get fork stantions re cromed as the ones im thinking of using arnt as good as I thought. :-\, or would it be cheaper to buy second hand ones in good nick

Wynne at JW Motorcycles, (in the Links page of the main site), sells new replacement tubes. Might be as cheap as getting yours rechromed. It's hard chrome, not normal show chrome. It's applied then turned down to size on a lathe.
If you're going for longish forks, a brace is a good idea. I've got one on mine that clamps to the top of the fork bottoms, just above the front mudguard. Ska Man's having a very nice billet ally one made by for his by SaddleBags at the moment.