Manky's Pop.

[cunningplan]

at least one thing, they wont fail it on the brakes   

[Firery Fred]

HURRAH HURRAH HURRAH from the north east,me nails might start to grow again

[Manky Monkey]

 
How do you think I feel?!
The brake efficiency required for the MOT is 10% lower than for the SVA, so hopefully shouldn't be a problem.

[spanners]

NOW JUST,, do the other jobs that are needed     to git,err,dun,      and dont fiddle with anything that works 

[Manky Monkey]

Yessir!

[ByzMax]

Andy.

There is nothing for them (the DVLA) to interpret as regarding the MOT situation but it's upto you. I'd not bother as it's not required under the Law.

Congrats anyway! 

[baggie]

Well done all you monkeys it will be good to see it on the road 

[Manky Monkey]

Thanks Mr B. 
I still think I'd like to MOT it, just so I know everything else is roadworthy -as I said, the SVA test only tested certain parts. For example, the kingpins on the front axle are knackered, (the bits the front hubs swivel on). Under heavy braking the front wheels juddered as the pins moved in their bushes. Dangerous to drive with cos it gives the wheels that shopping trolley effect, but they weren't tested during the SVA at all.
Kev, ("Kapri"), has been involved in a lot of tests & consultations with various departments through his involvement with ACE, the Association of Car Enthusiasts, (the car equivalent of motorcycling's MAG or BMF groups). He's been our guide through the test procedures, so if he thinks we need an MOT, I'm happy to go with that.
I've taken a few days off from the workshop, but must admit, I'm bored now!
Although the brakes passed, we've got a slight weep from one of the front caliper hoses. I want to change the layout of them, so now's the time to do it I think. We also didn't realise when we fitted the new master cylinder that the hydraulic brake light switch hangs much lower than before. In fact it's now the lowest part of the truck -as we discovered when we very nearly tore it clean off while loading the Pop onto Scottie's truck for the test. So it needs to go in a brass T piece spliced into the brake line somewhere out of the way. Then the brakes will need bleeding again!
After that I think I'll sort out permanent bolt-in floor panels & finish the gearbox tunnel & dashboard. I enjoy sheet metal fabrication & they'll be a good way to ease myself back into working on it again. It's a never ending saga!

[kapri]

If I could just point out that the SVA / BIVA is a Compliance test NOT a safety test, they check ( mostly)  totally different items.

That is why a TRUE kit car  ( everything supplied brand new from one source with only I reconditioned item) is allowed the normal 3 year MOT grace period and anything else is not .

The application of those rules do vary from LO officeto office but that doesn't mean it's correct Shortly there will be no LOs and everything will be dealt with by Swansea so expect more consistency re registration paperwork in future.

[ByzMax]

Kapri. whilst you are correct that the BIVA SVA is a different test it has actually got nothing to do with the test.

Whilst one is a compliance check and the other a safety check they largely cover the the main points and you'd fail an SVA if the exmaminer thought the vehicle was unsafe.

The reason for not needing an MOT for three years is because of the introduction of the SVA and the wording on the V5 and the law regarding that.

Before the introduction of the SVA a Q plated vehicle had an inditerminate date of manufacture on the V5 (assumed date for MOT purposes was 1971 I think) but when they introduced the SVA that changed. When you build a vehicle it now states on the V5 new at first registration. They can't alter this because you now have to get a new VIN etc when you SVA and therefore the vehicle is new. Might be made from secondhand parts but it's  a newly registered vehcile and the date of registration is noted on the V5 now.

The law states that a PLG vehicle does not need and MOT for three years from the date of first registration.

The DVLA in their wisdom chose to ignore this fact for the first few years and they would not register a Q plated build without an MOT cert. I registered a few trikes under that system but eventually someone challenged that and they backed down as it would require a change in the law to sort it out. Thats not feasible for the low number of vehicles tested each year and in any case the construction and use regs mean that you can be nicked for driving an unsafe vehicle.

I actually had an MOT fee refunded by the DVLA when I registered a Trike and they had insisted on a MOT certificate when it was not required.


The DVLA did issue a statement about this so I'll see if I can find a copy but it is a fact not hearsay as I have been through the process meany times.

Hope that helps 

[kapri]

Kapri. whilst you are correct that the BIVA SVA is a different test it has actually got nothing to do with the test.

Whilst one is a compliance check and the other a safety check they largely cover the the main points and you'd fail an SVA if the exmaminer thought the vehicle was unsafe.

The reason for not needing an MOT for three years is because of the introduction of the SVA and the wording on the V5 and the law regarding that.

Before the introduction of the SVA a Q plated vehicle had an inditerminate date of manufacture on the V5 (assumed date for MOT purposes was 1971 I think) but when they introduced the SVA that changed. When you build a vehicle it now states on the V5 new at first registration. They can't alter this because you now have to get a new VIN etc when you SVA and therefore the vehicle is new. Might be made from secondhand parts but it's  a newly registered vehcile and the date of registration is noted on the V5 now.

The law states that a PLG vehicle does not need and MOT for three years from the date of first registration.

The DVLA in their wisdom chose to ignore this fact for the first few years and they would not register a Q plated build without an MOT cert. I registered a few trikes under that system but eventually someone challenged that and they backed down as it would require a change in the law to sort it out. Thats not feasible for the low number of vehicles tested each year and in any case the construction and use regs mean that you can be nicked for driving an unsafe vehicle.

I actually had an MOT fee refunded by the DVLA when I registered a Trike and they had insisted on a MOT certificate when it was not required.


The DVLA did issue a statement about this so I'll see if I can find a copy but it is a fact not hearsay as I have been through the process meany times.

Hope that helps  

Pretty sure I've an official reply from Policy as well , I'll see if I can dig it up but  I'd very much like to see a copy so I can go back to them

What we had confirmed was :-

A Q plate is not new, if it were it would have  a new ,or age related to donor V5C , registration. As it isn't new then it needs an MOT. Likewise a newly registered vehicle with an age related ( to donor V5C ) plate cannot be new ( and will state so on the notes section of the V5C) as it requires 2 major components ( obviously secondhand ) from the donor vehicle. The only vehicle which gets new registration is the true kitcar ,all new bar one remanufactured part.

On Q plate logbooks, and donor V5c books, it states ,in notes section bottom of front page , 'manufactured from parts some of which may not be new ' or words to that effect.

It may be that there are different rules on trikes /bikes but it is certainly the case on cars.

You use to be able to put vehicles with bald tyres through an SVA is the lettering was correct on the sidewalls and conversely you could have all the tread in the world  but incorrect lettering = fail . One BIVA I attended ,only one week after it became law, 7 hour test , where a steering rod end was totally knackered it wasn't even noted .They can prohibit the vehicle if you drove to the test with C&U or MOT failable  items but otherwise a trailered vehicle is simply failed.

 

[blair]

hi lads . very well done to you Mr MM and all that helped , extreemly well deserved . you have now got me worried about the legalities of the MOT requirement , and after reading Byzmax and Kapri posts im even more confused

as you know i just went through the MSVA .... passed ... went to the DVLA ... payed for registriation £55 and road tax £77 ( or something ) and then got issued a reg plate letter giving me the reg number and SV12 *** not a Q and also a road tax disc . then a couple of weeks later my V5 came in .

first reg 01/04/12
special notes ; kit built/ converted - assembled from parts all of which may not be new
sva cert issued 27/3/12

so do i need an MOT i assumed not for 3 years , i have checked everything and pretty sure its all safe . lets face it a mot mean the vehicle is safe at the time of the MOT cause you could drive out of the test centre and and 2 months later your exhaust could fall off  or all your lights could blow whilst driving at night .

im also under the impression that since you need an MOT to get road tax and since i got issued road tax with my reg number that i dont need an mot

any help to you Mr MM thnk ive answered my own question

[kapri]

Can't find a letter re MOTs , must have done it verbally with Policy . Did find this below however re VIN number issue . More than happy to clarify next week if needed . If it was an official Press release do you have any idea of when, as David  Whitbread in the press office should be able to track down a copy?


"It is important that the vehicle is inspected by a DVLA local office before a VIN is stamped into the completed vehicle.  

 Q VRMs are issued for a number of reasons.  If , following inspection, the vehicle is assessed as being radically altered because the chassis/monocoque has been modified, the vehicle  is allocated a Q registration and a DVLA VIN (irrespective of the number of donor components used).

 Similarly if the chassis/monocoque is unaltered but the build has not retained enough of the donor vehicle a Q registration and DVLA VIN  is allocated.  SVA/IVA is needed before a vehicle can be registered.

Both Q registration marks and DVLA VINS are seen as consumer protection aids and alerts prospective buyers that they should enquire into the vehicle's history before purchasing.

Kit conversions are dealt with differently.  Where  a monocoque bodyshell/chassis has been altered but there is evidence that a manufacturers kit has been used ,  the vehicle may be allocated an age-related registration providing enough of the donor vehicle is used in the build and there is documentary evidence to support the application.

 The kit builder can, if they prefer, provide their own unique VIN or alternatively the local office will allocate a DVLA VIN.

In all cases, where an alternative registration number/VIN is allocated IVA will be needed before registration can take place .  The date of manufacture is taken as the date the vehicle is presented to VOSA and attains IVA.  

Regards

*****  "

[kapri]

hi lads . very well done to you Mr MM and all that helped , extreemly well deserved . you have now got me worried about the legalities of the MOT requirement , and after reading Byzmax and Kapri posts im even more confused

as you know i just went through the MSVA .... passed ... went to the DVLA ... payed for registriation £55 and raod tax £77 ( or something ) and then got issued a reg plate letter giving me the reg number and SV12 *** not a Q and also a raot tax disc . then a couple of weeks later my V5 came in .

first reg 01/04/12
special notes ; kit built/ converted - assembled from parts all of which may not be new
sva cert issued 27/3/12

so do i need an MOT i assumed not for 3 years , i have checked everything and pretty sure its all safe . lets face it a mot mean the vehicle is safe at the time of the MOT cause you could drive out of the test centre and and 2 months later your exhaust could fall off  or all your lights could blow whilst driving at night .

im also under the impression that since you need an MOT to get road tax and since i got issued road tax with my reg number that i dont need an mot

any help to you Mr MM thnk ive answered my own question

It goes back to how much of your conversion is new and whether you Local Office applied the rules correctly based on that .

We ( www.the-ace.org.uk) get involved in many Local Office errors . In fact ,as stated earlier, I dealt with one only this week re regsitration of a SVA passed Goods vehicle where they were going to register it  1980 vehicle due to the donor logbook. 4 of them stood by the vehicle, had the conversation in front of the owner .They confirmed that was correct despite him trying to put across what ACE had told him. A phone call from us to Policy sorted the issue and his age related plate ,and number plate issue docs arrived today . Just waiting on the V5c arriving to be cheked now

One thing is certain (hopefully! ) all the regs will be applied uniformily once the LOs are shut and we all have to deal with Swansea.

Byzmax, the MOT test is even more pertinent fora Good svehicle as it doesn't get a full SVA with many sections not being checked. Nor instances tyres and lights / reflectors etc are not looked at. Nor is play in steering components ,only that they do not foul as part of General Construction section.

Mind you the differences in SVA / MOT don't really matter as it no longer exists from the end of this  month

Anyway, I'm cluttering Andys build thread ,his call of what he wants to do .I've done what I wanted to achieve for Andy.

[kapri]

Byzmax, hope I haven't come across as too arguementative , difficult to state rules and regs without sounding that way.

Just stating ACEs current understanding by way of direct correspondence with VOSA Tech and DVLA Policy. If there is provable info out there that we are currently unaware of , and contradicts what we have been told is gospel  in official Press releases, we WANT to take it back up with them. Our whole purpose is making sure we have the correct facts to offer to those in need of help.