Suzuki SJ410 axle ratios ?

[tbone]

The donor axle is from a suzuki / Bedford rascal at 5-1 ratio is far to low should be at best 2.8-1.
The brake master cylinder internal bore is to large allowing 1-1 hydraulic ratio which has very  low braking power  this should be 14mm for the best performance.

I know the rear brake is not very efficient, it was one of the jobs that was on the back burner, maybe Bruce has found the reason! As you can see Bruce is saying that the rear axle has a 5-1 ratio but Im not sure if it is from a SJ410 or Sj413, Im trying to find out the differences so I can work it out!

As Bruce is the only one of us to have seen the trike, and is a "trike expert", why are we not going with the ratio he has come up with?
At a 5:1 ratio, the axle will be from a Bedford Rascal / Suzuki Carry van, 16" wheels and huge tyres is the only way to help with that  
The SJ410 diff is a straight swap for the Rascal one but there won`t be any great advantage in doing so 

[darklancer]

Sorry Cabman77 but I cant answer that one, I got her off the owners widow and she knew nothing about her over and above the fact that her disabled husband had been working on her for 2 years! For interest here are a couple of pics of her, the first is how she looked when I got her and the second is how she is now. Apologies for the quality but I have had to change them to GIF.
I agree with you Tbone except that i dont know if Bruce actually checked the axle or just assumed it to be a SJ410, I just want to be cautious at the moment, too much money has gone out the door on "mistakes"!

[terry t]

have you a photo of the prop and axle

[darklancer]

waiting for them to arrive by email Terry, as soon as I get them I will post them for all to see!

[terry t]

Sorry Terry but I cant answer this, I wasnt actually there when Bruce went down to check the Trike so I am relying on 3rd hand info. The discussion tomorrow is really to potentially plan a way forward (Ive sent you a PM on this), having had the problems I have had with the current shop my trike is in I am very twitchy about anyone else and want to make sure they know what theyre doing, I cant afford any more problems, the budget wont stand it!

That's what this site is about. were here to help if we can. we have all heard the man in the pub say this is the way to do. or they don't know what there talking about.
you said your trike has been in another trike shop so why didn't they pick these problems up

have not received your PM yet

[darklancer]

Hi Pete

Dont know why you havent received the PM, according to the system I replied to your msg, I dont know where it could have gone!

With regard to the "shop" I have been using,  its not actually a trike shop but a motorbike shop. When I got my trike I made the BIG mistake of assuming that what I had been told by a friend of the guy who owned it was both correct and accurate, I therefore further assumed that the work needed, as the trike work was all done was motorbike type work, therefore I put in into a motorbike dealership.I did actually contact a couple of Trike builders by email asking if they would take the work on but received no replies!
The work they actually had to do was sort out the sprague clutch, front brakes, fix an oil leak and move the rear brake to the left, as you can see all bike work! (there were a couple of cosmetic issues as well but we can disregard these). I know I made a stupid mistake and believe me I have paid for it, (potentially with buying a replacement engine which wasnt cheap and I cant prove it was anything they did either).  the bottom line is the mess is my fault and I will take it on the chin, dont really have any other option!

The objective is now to get her on the road; hence the meeting with Bruce tomorrow but its all going to come down to numbers and BB Customs. I know nothing about them over and above what their website says, if you have any experience with them or know what theyre like i would be really grateful to hear your views.

If the cost from BB is too high OR I dont like what theyre trying to sell me I may very well attempt to do some of this myself although that wont be easy. If this is what ends up happening I will be relying on this website a hell of a lot!

If my PM doesnt arrive by COB let me know and i will re=write and send it.

Thanx

[darklancer]

Sorry Terry, my msg above should read

HI TERRY!, (not Pete)

Apologies!!!!

[darklancer]

And apologies again Terry, I did NOT send you a PM, it went to Pete in response to his, at least we know why you didnt receive it!

I really need to concentrate on one thing at a time/......

Sorry mate 

[terry t]

That's OK. well at least we know one thing. the engine had to come out to sort the sprague clutch out.
as for BB customs i have had no dealings with them. But the first trike i saw and had a good look over was a yellow gl1000 nice. in Bournemouth built by them.  that's how i got into trikes couldn't afford one so i built one.
they do build a nice trike though.

[darklancer]

Yeah. Look, the bike shop I put her into wasnt too bad and if I had a standard bike I would probably use them. The problem is though that what I thought I needed them to do and what they ended up doing was chalk and cheese. In retrospect I should have dragged her out from there as soon as things started going "pear-shaped" but hind-sight is 20/20 vision isnt it? Im only just starting to realise the huge differences between Trikes and bikes and maybe I should have done a little more research but.....

Anyway, she will, with any luck be on the road shortly and this will all be a bad memory..

[morrag]

Mr Lancer, as far as 'Bike to Trike conversions are concerned the differences are not, as you put it "huge" as the majority of the vehicle is original motorcycle, which any reasonably adept motorcycle emporium should be able to deal with. As far as the conversion to a pair of back wheels over just one, then basic Engineering skills are required, or at least access too them, a knowledge of 'Stress and Strain' re-frames, and an ability to calculate final drive ratios, none of it rocket science, but requiring a little more than the "knife, fork and spoon" toolkit some attempt it with!so this problem of yours should be readily solvable with this sort of expertise!! this is not meant as a hectoring or negative observation, but just one that owes allegiance to 'Dirty Harry's'classic statement,"Know your limitations!" Morrag

[tbone]

I agree with you Tbone except that i dont know if Bruce actually checked the axle or just assumed it to be a SJ410, I just want to be cautious at the moment, too much money has gone out the door on "mistakes"!

I don`t know Bruce or BBcustoms but as a professional trike builder for over ten years i am fairly sure he would not assume anything.
He should also know that a SJ axle is not a 5:1 ratio and that SJ axles have an offset diff. I believe we are getting mixed up somewhere 

It`s unlikely that the word Suzuki was just plucked randomly out of the air, it had to come from somewhere so let`s assume its a Suzuki axle...
The first thing YOU NEED TO KNOW is if the diff is central in the axle or offset.

A central diff would point to the Rascal/Carry Van as a donor vehicle, having a 5:1 ratio (as mentioned by Bruce)
An offset diff would indicate one of the SJ models as a donor vehicle,  the SJ410 has a ratio of 4111:1
                                                                                              the SJ413 samurai has a ratio of 3.727:1 or 3.909:1 depending on model
I believe the 410 had a 7" drum while the 413 had an 8" drum.

[terry t]

Hi tbone. darklancer mentioned in an earlier post that he thought the prop was not offset. so in that case the axle has an offset diff
looking like he got the sj axle. as for what one.

[tbone]

Hiya Terry,
                with all due respect to darklancer, we dont actually know what he meant by that.
Did he mean the prop was not offset because it ran from the centre of the axle at an angle to the output shaft or because it ran in a straight line from the output shaft to the axle?

[terry t]

I know mean. still Bruce is looking at it today. so hopfully we will have a bit more info and some photos. then we will be able to see whats there.