Suzuki SJ410 axle ratios ?

[mouse]

is it possible to change the diff ratio of the Suzuki SJ410 ?
a friend on another forums come unstuck with his goldwing gl1100 trike

[trikerpete]

Hi Mouse
 Any idea how much it needs changing?
Ratios can be altered by changing tyre/wheel sizes.
 

[mouse]

hey up Pete
I'm not 100% sure mate the guy has applied to be a member on here so hopefully he will be along with More info
i have suggested the tyre/wheel route 

[darklancer]

Ok, as mouse said earlier Im the guy with the GL1100 trike problem and heres a potted history.

I wont go into all the background, suffice to say that I have a GL1100 trike that I got partly finished and my objective was to complete it.

for disability reasons (i have no right leg) the trike has, at the moment a kliktronic gear change system fitted to the handlebars and the rear brake is on the left side. basically what happened was she was being ridden to her mot and on the way 3rd gear wouldnt select and then the engine block cracked. She was recovered and this started a whole load of events. I decided to get her checked out by a trike specialist and got Bruce from BB Custom trikes to check her out before anything else was done to her. He has told me that the following are problems:

1. The rear axle is from a Suzuki SJ410. According to Bruce (trike specialist) this is no good as the ratios are all wrong and the trike will top out at about 50 MPH screaming the engine as it does so.
2. The prop is "too tight" and doesnt have enough give.
3. The prop is not aligned correctly.
4. The rear axle is too low and flexing the frame and body when going over bumps.

Bruce isnt sure if the axle problems caused the block to crack or not, in fact no one can tell me the reason this happened although it has been suggested that the above in total could have been the cause.

I have got hold of a replacement engine and want to get her finished. It has been suggested that the best way to do this is to replace the rear axle and diff but as she is just about built this would actually entail a complete rebuild of the backend, not something i want to do if there is another route I can take, hence the reason for the question about changing the ratios of the axle. The prop issues i dont view as too much of a problem, the engine and rear axle are the major problems that I need to resolve. Therefore if anyone has any views on changing the ratios of the suzuki axle which would negate the need to change the rear of the trike I would be grateful.

Subject to sorting out the problem with the axle and putting the replacement engine into the frame I also intend removing the kliktronic gearchange system and reverting to a foot control, this would mean I would have to make the rear brake pedal a heel pedal but I have been told that this should be fine.

So, thats the situation, can anyone give me some advice on how to move forward please?

Many Thanx

[Manky Monkey]

Hiya -& welcome to the forum. 
Just a simple question from me, cos I'm just a simple Monkey -why can't you change the axle, rather than trying to swap the diff gears?
Terry T runs a Goldwing trike with a Reliant axle & it seems to ride very well.
One Arm Bandit recently fitted a heel brake to his Reliant trike.
Plenty of experience here to draw on. 

[morrag]

The SJ410 axle ratio is 4.11:1, whereas the Reliant axle ratio, the Robin, is 3.23:1, so considerably higher, which is why of course your top speed at max RPM is so low. Therefore, the sensible route, already suggested!, is to replace the Suzuki axle with a Reliant, as even the largest acceptable wheels you could fit would still mean too low an axle ratio using the SJ410. Regarding the damage to your block, unless something physically stressed the crankcases, due to poor design of your driveline, I feel it unlikely that a low axle ratio alone would have caused the damage,  Morrag

[hunter]

What about the sj13.

[terry t]

Hi I thought the suzuki axle had an offset diff. i agree with morrag about the damage to the engine. did it brake where the drive shaft come out the engine on the rear case. if the prop is running across the back that will cause some stress on the engine.
post some photos of the rear setup axle prop and damaged engine

as you went to BB customs are you from the Bournemouth area then

[darklancer]

Hi Gents and thanx for the responses.
To answer: The reason for looking at changing the ratios of the suzuki diff is because the trike is close to completion and I didnt want to have to rip the rear end apart but if thats what has to happen I guess it will have to.
Hunter asked about the SJ13. I have been led to believe that the axle is actually from a SJ413 although this is difficult to confirm. The last owner was also disabled although he had his left leg missing (hence the reason for the kliktronic gear change) My understanding is that he worked on her and was within a couple of weeks of getting her completed for MOT when he unexpectedly died. His widow left her sitting for a couple of years in the garage before deciding to part with her, thats when we got her. I got a load of paperwork with her and the receipt for the rear axle suggests that its from a SJ413 but to be honest with what we have found out since getting her I cannot confirm anything I have been told as being true or correct. Is there any way to confirm of the axle is from a 410 or 413? The prop is not offset as far as I can see.
I wasnt involved in riding her down to MOT when the engine blew, all I know is what I have been told and that is that 3rd gear wouldnt select and then the block cracked. I have been told on another forum that I can get this block welded,, Any views?
I will get some pics organised for the rear axle and prop and the engine crack but in the interim here is a pic showing where the crack is. This isnt my engine but a stock pic from internet. As it has also been suggested that a change of wheel size could help i will also post the details of the rear wheels and tyres showing the sizes.

Many Thanx gents.

 

[darklancer]

Apologies TerryT forgot to add, Yes, we live near Blandford Forum, about 15 miles from Bournemouth.

Thanx

[terry t]

I cant think why it cracked there. these engine are held in by 2 lower frame mount those 2 at the front and 2 more at the back

any way the 413 axle is 3.909-1. and the samurai is a 3.727-1. so i think the axle is fine let us know. what size tyres you running on

Found this on the web

Ratios & diff interchangability

410= 4.11:1
LJ 80= 4.56:1
410 and lj80 diffs are direct swaps, front and rear diffs have different spline counts.

413= 3.909:1
Samurai= 3.727:1
413 and sammy diffs are direct swaps, front and rear diffs have different spline counts

410 & lj80 diffs are smaller than 413& Samurai diffs so you cannot swap them.

Vitara swb manual=5.125:1
auto=4.6:1
comercial & lwb =4.88:1

Front Vitara diffs are a direct bolt into Samurai/413 axles but if it is an alloy diff it is best to swap the ring and pinion into a steel Samurai/413 diff. Rear diffs are larger and do not fit Samurai/413 axles.

[steven brock]

I assume you can just put a reliant engine an axle in then as you need a new engine.. ?

[terry t]

I assume you can just put a reliant engine an axle in then as you need a new engine.. ?

No it won't fit. the frame will need to much work done for it to fit in

[one arm bandit]

hello and welcome.... what dia are the axel tubes,and how is the axel fixed to the swing arm?? as it may not be as bigger job you think to change to the well tried and very well tested reliant axel. in which case then you would need new wheels as the pcd will be different.

[darklancer]

Hi Terry

Thanx for the response. I am going to have to see if theres a way to confirm if this axle is a 410 or 413, if its a 413 it should, I think, be ok as mouse is using a sierra diff with a ratio of 3.91 (very close to the 413 of 3.909) and he has no problems with speed or engine revs. The problem of course is how to confirm which one it is....

To answer steven brock, sorry, cannot do! I already have a replacement GL1100 engine AND in addition, to use a reliant engine would need a huge amount of rework. I would also have to sort out additional problems like gear changes, I have no right leg so cannot use a clutch!

I think i need to get some pics on here asap showing everything people want to see, thats my job for today so more later!

again my thanx, all input is much appreciated.