Starting Problems

[terry t]

ok let have a summery of whats been done
it was all working before but the wiring was a mess
rewired then no power at solenoid but when checked and replaced fuses had power
would not start on key. but if sorted across solenoid it would start
then when you went to switch the motor off it would not stop had to pull coil feed off to stop
have power to solenoid starter but wont click solenoid in to start.
so it could be
2 naff solenoids
1 naff ignition switch
or the wiring
so test the solenoid off the motor. disconnect all the wires to it.
run a live feed to the power side. and a test light from the starter side. earth the solenoid body to the - side of the battery. then take a live feed from the + side of battery to solenoid starter terminal
if it light up the lamp then check the wiring this is the only way to make sure the solenoid works or not

[archiebrown]

There are 4 identified terminals on my ignition switch, labelled Bat, Ign, Acc and St
I just tested ignition switch and coil, it is as follows:-
key in the off position only Bat terminal is live
key in the on position Bat, Ign and Acc are live
key in the Start position just St is live
key turned anti clockwise just Acc is live
both sides of the coil are live with ignition on

The Brown wire is a replacement wire for the Blue one (the pictures with 2 Blue wires are just old photos taken before I started this project with the wiring).

[archiebrown]

ok let have a summery of whats been done
it was all working before but the wiring was a mess
rewired then no power at solenoid but when checked and replaced fuses had power
would not start on key. but if sorted across solenoid it would start
then when you went to switch the motor off it would not stop had to pull coil feed off to stop
have power to solenoid starter but wont click solenoid in to start.
so it could be
2 naff solenoids
1 naff ignition switch
or the wiring
so test the solenoid off the motor. disconnect all the wires to it.
run a live feed to the power side. and a test light from the starter side. earth the solenoid body to the - side of the battery. then take a live feed from the + side of battery to solenoid starter terminal
if it light up the lamp then check the wiring this is the only way to make sure the solenoid works or not

Just done the  test above on both solenoids, with same result 'NO LIGHT'

[terry t]

it looks like you shorted out 2 solenoids then 

[archiebrown]

it looks like you shorted out 2 solenoids then 

Ok I can live with that, I'm a Dick can you just confirm that a shorted out Solenoid would also prevent it from stopping when the key is turned off?

[one arm bandit]

doesnt the key turn the ignition off stopping the coil from sparking?? the solinoid is only there to get the starter to spin

[fifer]

Originally posted by archiebrown ;
I just tested ignition switch and coil, it is as follows:-

key in the off position only Bat terminal is live

CORRECT 
{ 1 } Should only have one THICK BROWN going direct from the terminal on the solenoid { where the THICK RED wire is } to the back of the IGNITION SWITCH to terminal marked BAT .

key in the on position Bat, Ign and Acc are live

CORRECT 

key in the Start position just St is live

WRONG 
You need to have power from the IGN terminal supplying the coil while the starter is operated

key turned anti clockwise just Acc is live

CORRECT  and you should possibly be able to remove the key as this is your parking light position ?? BUT at this point in time of no consequence to the running

both sides of the coil are live with ignition on

Should ONLY have power to the { + } side of the coil UNLESS YOUR DISTRIBUTOR POINTS ARE OPEN
Just turn the engine over with a spanner on the big nut in the middle of the timing pulley and if correct the light should go out at some point when the points close .

Two on the live terminal (Big Red Wire) and one in middle between main terminals (like in the picture)

Starting Problems

New Solenoid

IF the THICK RED wire comes direct from the battery then the way it is wired means that ALL the Normal wire Red terminals from the solenoid to the fuse box are live all the time as well .

Should only need ONE small RED wire going to ONE fuse terminal though you can wire 2 direct to 2 fuse box terminals .These terminals are normally only used for HAZARD warning , HORN , HEADLAMP FLASH all of which require power to be on with the Ignition OFF .
I shall call these terminals 3 and 4

That leaves 2 spare fuse terminals .
I shall call these terminals 1 and 2
A wire should go direct from the IGN position on the IGNITION SWITCH direct to one of the Terminal 1 on the fuse box and be looped to the other spare Terminal 2.
The wire to the coil is wired direct to the Terminal 1 position
This means that the POWER to the COIL SWITCHES OFF when the IGNITION SWITCH is in the OFF position .
.

[archiebrown]

No!
Turn ignition on supplies power to the solenoid but turning to start does nowt.
I can start her by shorting across the terminals of the solenoid but she won't turn off when the key is turned back to the off position. She used to but this problem suddenly materialised half way through trying to fix the starting problem.

[spanners]

so the coil is getting fed from somewhere other than the ignition switch,, look for wire,s that may have melted together 
try running a seperate feed from the ign, switch to the coil after disconnecting the exsisting feed at the coil end ,,

[archiebrown]

Cheers Fifer, I will check all that lot tomorrow night when I am a bit more awake and get back to you.
I am just about pullin me hair out, what bit I have left  

[terry t]

No!
Turn ignition on supplies power to the solenoid but turning to start does nowt.
I can start her by shorting across the terminals of the solenoid but she won't turn off when the key is turned back to the off position. She used to but this problem suddenly materialised half way through trying to fix the starting problem.

so when you turn the key to the start position have you any power at the solenoid
also not stopping the engine when the key is turned off. is another issue. permanent live to coil or a wrong wire connected i would lose that 2ND wire from the button on the handle bar switch it could be sending a live feed back
check to see if there is a live feed to the coil with ignition off

[archiebrown]

so the coil is getting fed from somewhere other than the ignition switch,, look for wire,s that may have melted together 
try running a seperate feed from the ign, switch to the coil after disconnecting the exsisting feed at the coil end ,,

I just replaced that wire tonite with a slightly heavier duty one. it definitely goes from ignition switch direct to coil.

[spanners]

so the coil is getting fed from somewhere other than the ignition switch,, look for wire,s that may have melted together 
try running a seperate feed from the ign, switch to the coil after disconnecting the exsisting feed at the coil end ,,

I just replaced that wire tonite with a slightly heavier duty one. it definitely goes from ignition switch direct to coil.

is anything else connected to it at either end ??

[archiebrown]

so the coil is getting fed from somewhere other than the ignition switch,, look for wire,s that may have melted together 
try running a seperate feed from the ign, switch to the coil after disconnecting the exsisting feed at the coil end ,,

I just replaced that wire tonite with a slightly heavier duty one. it definitely goes from ignition switch direct to coil.

is anything else connected to it at either end ??

No one wire from switch to coil thats it, sumat else may be on the same ign terminal I will check tomorrow.
Have a long list by then 

[archiebrown]

No!
Turn ignition on supplies power to the solenoid but turning to start does nowt.
I can start her by shorting across the terminals of the solenoid but she won't turn off when the key is turned back to the off position. She used to but this problem suddenly materialised half way through trying to fix the starting problem.

so when you turn the key to the start position have you any power at the solenoid
also not stopping the engine when the key is turned off. is another issue. permanent live to coil or a wrong wire connected i would lose that 2ND wire from the button on the handle bar switch it could be sending a live feed back
check to see if there is a live feed to the coil with ignition off

"so when you turn the key to the start position have you any power at the solenoid" Yes

"i would lose that 2ND wire from the button on the handle bar switch it could be sending a live feed back" I did that already but it made no difference, but I will take it away permanently tomorrow.

"check to see if there is a live feed to the coil with ignition off" I checked that tonight for Tbone and I think the answer was no I will check again tomorrow.